[TD-TF] minutes - 17 April 2020

available at:
  https://www.w3.org/2020/04/17-wot-td-minutes.html

also as text below.

Thanks a lot for taking the minutes, Ege!

Kazuyuki

---
   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                             WoT-WG - TD-TF

17 Apr 2020

   [2]Agenda

      [2] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#Apr_17.2C_2020

Attendees

   Present
          Kaz_Ashimura, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Daniel_Peintner,
          Ege_Korkan, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Taki_Kamiya,
          Michael_Koster, Zoltan_Kis

   Regrets

   Chair
          Sebastian

   Scribe
          Ege, kaz

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Agenda review
         2. [5]Previous minutes
         3. [6]Repository
         4. [7]Issue 842
         5. [8]Issue 889
         6. [9]Issue 890
         7. [10]Issue 892
         8. [11]Binding templates
     * [12]Summary of Action Items
     * [13]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <kaz> scribenick: Ege

Agenda review

   <kaz> [14]Agenda

     [14] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#Apr_17.2C_2020

   Kaz: given the discussion during the main call, maybe we should
   ask Farschid from Frauenhofer to join the TD call as well at
   some point

   Sebastian: he can join any calls now. Let's ask him to join the
   discovery call first

Previous minutes

   <kaz> [15]Apr-3 minutes

     [15] https://www.w3.org/2020/04/03-wot-td-minutes.html

   Sebastian: (reviewing the last minutes)
   ... Any objection to publish the last minutes?
   ... no objection it seems, publishing

Repository

   <kaz> [16]wot-thing-description repository

     [16] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description

   Sebastian: Should we keep the repository as it is or make a new
   one
   ... I tried to understand how other groups do it

   Kaz: jsonld didn't use github for the first version

   Daniel: there are many pitfalls to creating a new repository

   Kaz: I also agree with Daniel

   Ege: Also you would need to copy the issues but their labels as
   well. For a project of this size, it is dangerous and checking
   that we copied correctly would be a difficult manual task

   Sebastian: regarding versioning, we can keep the v1.1 idea and
   if the changes are substantial, we can do a version 2.0

   <kaz> [17]https://github.com/w3c/imsc

     [17] https://github.com/w3c/imsc

   <kaz> Kaz: IMSC example above. TTWG manages several versions of
   IMSC spec within one repo

   Kaz: IMSC example shows that they have different branches for
   different versionss

   Sebastian: so let's do it like this. I will organize this until
   next week

   <kaz> (note that we should add links for the recommendation
   version on the README.md :)

   <sebastian> proposal: the group decided to keep the TD
   repository for the next version. The repository will be
   organized in similar way as IMSC by TTWG.

   RESOLUTION: the group decided to keep the TD repository for the
   next version. The repository will be organized in similar way
   as IMSC by TTWG.

   Sebastian: should we have a requirement that a 1.0 processor
   can process 1.1 but just not understand the new keywords
   ... json-ld 1.1 is a substantial change for example

   Ege: but I think a 1.0 parser will not fail trying to parse 1.1
   ?

   Sebastian: but it will not be able to understand new terms and
   ways to parse it

   Taki: new implementations are starting and it would surprise
   them if we publish a new REC in 6 months that breaks their
   implementations

   Zoltan: we need to be able to tell two versions when consuming
   and producing them
   ... a service can automatically convert them
   ... if the changes are backwards compatible, you can nearly
   omit the versioning since it would be automatic

   Kaz: I also agree with Zoltan and Taki

   <kaz> Kaz: we could add features but should not change the
   meanings/behaviors of the existing features so that the v1.1
   processor could safely process the v1.0 TD instances

   [18]https://semver.org/

     [18] https://semver.org/

   Ege: I also agree with the rest, also semantic versioning is
   against incrementing the second number of the version there is
   a breaking change

   Sebastian: so it is good to see that the group has a consensus
   on that. We don't need to decide now

Issues 842

   [19]Issue 842

     [19] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/842

   [20]Related PR 891

     [20] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/891

   Daniel: the problem was that the fix was not in the working
   version

   Sebastian: then let's merge
   ... and close the issue

Issues 889

   <kaz> [21]Issue 889

     [21] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/889

   Sebastian: he wants to define the length of a string

   <kaz> [22]JSON Schema in RDF

     [22] https://www.w3.org/2019/wot/json-schema

   Sebastian: we can update the JSON Schema vocabulary to include
   these

   Ege: I am not against adding these two words, it not a big
   addition anyways, but I would force people to document their
   implementations and provide input for the implementation report
   so that we don't have to generate dummy TDs

   <scribe> ACTION: ege will follow up on isssue 889

issue 890

   <kaz> [23]Issue 890

     [23] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/890

   Koster: I am not sure if this is the appropriate term to use

   Kaz: you should reformulate the issue to clarify the
   requirements. possibly waiting until some action is done and/or
   some event is received

   (some more discussion about Ege's idea)

   <kaz> scribenick: kaz

   [24]SMIL 3.0

     [24] https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-smil/smil-timing.html

   [25]SCXML as state transition controller as another fyi

     [25] https://www.w3.org/TR/scxml/

   Kaz: maybe what you want is something similar to SMIL or might
   be SCXML
   ... but we'd like to understand what you want a bit more
   precisely
   ... so would suggest you elaborate your use cases a bit more

   scribenick: Ege

   Sebastian: Ege will work on reformulating the issue and make it
   clearer

Issue 892

   scribenick: kaz

   [26]Issue 892

     [26] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/892

   Ege: HTTP binding for providing historical events
   ... would ask Victor for opinions

   Zoltan: what would be the benefit to include this into the
   standard?

   Sebastian: motivation for the use case?

   Zoltan: similar example with telephone systems
   ... keeping call history, etc.
   ... but should be handled separately

   Koster: not sure how to deal with this, maybe something is
   missing, though
   ... but how to build into TD's interaction affordance

   Zoltan: more like fetching status

   Sebastian: maybe we should involve Ben as well

   Kaz: yeah, think this is related to TD management mechanism
   like state transition
   ... we should clarify the requirements a bit more

   Taki: some industry use case values projection
   ... but we need to clarify the use case about how to handle it

   Sebastian: yeah, good point to ask the proposer

   Ege: yeah, the way how to handle the history would not be
   compatible with the current TD

   Sebastian: we need more clarifications

   <Ege> [27]https://github.com/RoboPhred/wutwot/

     [27] https://github.com/RoboPhred/wutwot/

   Ege: link for this proposer's implementation above

   Sebastian: JS-based?
   ... (looks into the repo)
   ... interesting
   ... maybe we can invite this guy to our meeting

Binding templates

   <Ege> [28]https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/95

     [28] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/95

   Ege: created a PR 2 weeks ago
   ... basically, here I collected examples from Issues
   ... Zoltan and Koster have given comments

   [29]diffs

     [29] https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/95/cc021b8...ccf1ee1.html

   Ege: removed section 4.4
   ... there were problems with examples
   ... id in brightness, etc.
   ... was not clear how to add new binding
   ... the examples have many diffs but minor changes
   ... would like to merge this PR 95
   ... any objection?

   (no objections)

   Ege: merged
   ... any other updates regarding vocabularies?

   [30]CoAP vocabulary within the repo

     [30] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/blob/master/ontology/coap.ttl

   Ege: how to handle that?
   ... and any updates?

   Sebastian: should organize the TD repo as well for the JSON
   Schema resources

   Ege: where to put it?

   Sebastian: make sense to collaborate with IETF
   ... not sure where to put the resources at the moment
   ... but should start collaborative work
   ... could start with people who are already involved

   Ege: we should be careful about method code vs human readable
   features
   ... no consumers (=application developers) use codes

   Koster: people would use names though codes are also defined

   Ege: we should work on MQTT as well

   Koster: TD doesn't have to care about the detail

   Ege: we just care about vocabulary used by TD

   Sebastian: btw, who created this coap.ttl file?

   Ege: think it's done by Victor several years ago
   ... (adds comments to Issue 93)

   [31]Issue 93

     [31] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/93

   [32]Ege's new comments

     [32] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/93#issuecomment-615102104

   Ege: anything else?

   (none)

   [adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: ege will follow up on isssue 889

Summary of Resolutions

    1. [33]the group decided to keep the TD repository for the
       next version. The repository will be organized in similar
       way as IMSC by TTWG.

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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Received on Monday, 27 April 2020 09:14:23 UTC