- From: Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org>
- Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 16:47:45 +0900
- To: public-wot-wg@w3.org
available at:
https://www.w3.org/2020/04/03-wot-td-minutes.html
also as text below.
Thanks a lot for taking the minutes, Daniel!
Kazuyuki
---
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
WoT-WG - TD-TF
03 Apr 2020
[2]Agenda
[2] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#Apr_3.2C_2020
Attendees
Present
Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Sebastian_Kaebisch,
Taki_Kamiya, Michael_Koster, Tomoaki_Mizushima,
Zoltan_Kis, Klaus_Hartke
Regrets
Chair
Sebastian
Scribe
dape
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Past minutes
2. [5]REC transition
3. [6]Issues
4. [7]Binding Template, Ontology for CoAP
5. [8]OAuth2
6. [9]Binding templates
7. [10]Bank holiday next Friday? Good Friday
* [11]Summary of Action Items
* [12]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<kaz> scribenick: dape
Past minutes
<kaz> [13]Mar-27 minutes
[13] https://www.w3.org/2020/03/27-wot-td-minutes.html
Sebastian: review of minutes and virtual F2F minutes
... rec status
... issue w.r.t. eventing... templates/common patterns
... talk about efficient formats
... objections?
... no -> approved
REC transition
<inserted> [14]draft for REC
[14] https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/publication/rec/
Sebastian: Approval for TD, publish April 9
Kaz: got response from Jeff about quote... waiting for response
of Coralie
Sebastian: Perfect
... waiting for some testimonals... having testimonals later is
also fine
Kaz: will check the TD document again.. changing the dates et
cetera during weekend
... are we OK with CSS settings about highlighting
Sebastian: Yes, look better now
... still some minor issues when it is not valid JSON. Anyhow,
it is ok
Kaz: fixed JS and it works
<Zakim> dape, you wanted to with default dynamic
Sebastian: TD draft looks good!
Issues
Sebastian: Event patterns,
[15]https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/887
... coming from scripting
... common patterns for eventing, eg., subscription ID
... cancelling requires subscription ID again
... Question: can we generalize such approaches
... M. Lagally provided a more complex eventing mechanism
... checked standards such as WebSub
... no ID handling used as it seems
... Yes, likely they keep open socket
[15] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/887
Daniel: I believe SSE does not need it either.. keep open
connection
Koster: Yes, SSE keeps open HTTP connection with keep alive
... metadata in the stream
... syntactical convention
... could build subprotocol for it
... SSE, WebSub need a sub protocol
... MQTT as well
Sebastian: For MQTT we would not need handler, based on topic
... "data" container might be sufficient
... no subscription/cancellation
... in binding templates we propose the retain flag.. means
possible to write property
... for eventing, don't use retain flag simply define event
... kind of guideline
... What about observe CoAP
Koster: CoAP has separate address
... couple of options
... read with observe flag
... believe we have related issues in binding
Zoltan: first sample of event coming right away
... read with event flag
Koster: Unsure what the first value means.. no event took place
... ignore first value
Sebastian: Question is what is handled by the protocol
... e.g., CoAP observe. Binding knows what to do by skipping
first value
... this information should not be in TD
Koster: Believe we have related issue
Sebastian:
[16]https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/878?
[16] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/878
Koster: Initial connection should not be described in TD?
Sebastian: MQTT needs connection to broker before doing
anything
... no information in TD how the setup works? Relates to
specific binding
... href may contain broker address and topic
Koster: "unsubscribe" should be added in example 34 (binding)
or remove op at all
... first time encountering href you could connect...
... cache connection
... security information are still required
Sebastian: Yes, in securityDefinitions ...e.g. basic
... TD gives you the information about security etc. MQTT
binding takes this information and setups the actual connection
Koster: Security definition needs broker address also
... could be 3 different brokers
Zoltan: MQTT and OCF could use event interaction and hide the
internals
Sebastian: securityDefinitions might contain multiple security
information
Koster: Forgot that security can be present locally in form
also
Sebastian: Tradeoff between how much information in TD and how
much information in binding
Koster: A bit complex but works (caching connections with
various security schemes et cetera)
Sebastian: Ben mentioned Mozilla uses own websocket protocol
... essentially don't need form anymore
Koster: Why don't we do that for MQTT as well?
Sebastian: We could
... topic is still needed
Ege: initial connection is implicit in HTTP if you keep sockets
alive
Koster: Yes, but there is a header for that
Sebastian: Coming back to original question. We still need a
good overview about existing eventing patterns
... looking at Oracle cloud
... CoAP observe
... MQTT
... Issue,
[17]https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/888
[17] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/888
Ege: Background: property is readable and writable
... read is not value you wrote.. some wrote in between
... in case of oberserve, should I get the value I wrote
Koster: notifications lost?
Zoltan: transaction support
Koster: 1. should there be a notification... I think yes
Ege: Any write request should generate notification
Koster: CoAP creates notification for every update
... there will be open questions w.r.t. protocol
Ege: I just believe we should have some information in behavior
assertions
Koster: "Looser" approach works better.. not making too strict
assumptions
Sebastian: I am wondering about the relevance?
Ege: testing and behavior. Section 8 of TD also
Binding Template, Ontology for CoAP
Sebastian:
[18]https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/93
... similar to HTTP start work on CoAP
[18] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/93
<mjk> [19]https://www.w3.org/TR/HTTP-in-RDF10/
[19] https://www.w3.org/TR/HTTP-in-RDF10/
Sebastian: Kaz, can we create a own github repo for ontology on
CoAP?
... also who is willing to support this task (so far Klaus and
Sebastian)
Ege: Willing to support
Koster: would like to be involved in MQTT also
Ege: Need also someone from MQTT area
Sebastian: at building IOT conference I meet some MQTT people.
will try to reach out
Koster: could also reach out to Eclipse founation guys
Kaz: w.r.t. ontology repo: I am wondering about usage and
content
<kaz> [20]ontology file
[20] https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/ontology/td.html
Kaz: move the html file to new repo?
Sebastian: Vocabulary could be used by TD but should not be
limited to TD
Kaz: HTTP RDF work kind of abandoned
... do we want to create such work/notes
Sebastian: Would keep work in TD call... having status reports
... charter says 2.12 "protocol vocabulary and bindings"
Kaz: Note: new process within W3C, evergreen process
... let's discuss it in main call
Sebastian: OK, let's do so...
Koster: Could start in binding template document
Kaz: btw, to be strict, "ontology" is different from
"vocabulary"
Koster: For our purpose it is equivalent
OAuth2
<sebastian>
[21]https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/File:2020_TD_Topics_vf2f.pdf
[21] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/File:2020_TD_Topics_vf2f.pdf
Sebastian: slide #18
... have OAuth2 support in TD but had to remove at-risk
features
... "flow" term
... based on GovTech Singapore discussion these missing terms
are needed
... idea is to bring it back to the status we had before
removing the at-risk features
... node-wot will be offering OAuth2 support also very soon.
Work has been started.
... after TD document being published we should bring back this
work
Binding templates
Ege: [22]https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/94
... little problems pointed out
... issue with XML double/number
[22] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/94
Daniel: comes from EXI4JSON, can look this up
Taki: will take a look
Ege: [23]https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/21
... fixed some attribute names
[23] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/21
<Ege>
[24]https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-binding-templat
es/pull/95.html
[24] https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/95.html
<Ege> [25]https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/95
[25] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/95
Ege: ML pointed to term "value scaling"
... not sure about this whole section
... removed 4.4
... also specified OCF version 1.3
... added references (e.g., SenML)
Koster: Could also point to latest OCF version
<Ege>
[26]https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/94
[26] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/94
Bank holiday next Friday? Good Friday
Sebastian: Holiday in Europe...
... suggest cancelling the call
... next meeting in 2 weeks
<kaz> [adjourned]
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Saturday, 18 April 2020 07:47:41 UTC