Re: [wot-ig/wg] minutes - 10 July 2019

Dear WoT members,

I just uploaded the slides with the "WoT Core Profile" proposal I presented during the call.

https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/master/proposals/WoT%20Interoperability-Core%20Profile-final.pdf <https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/master/proposals/WoT%20Interoperability-Core%20Profile-final.pdf>

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Best regards,

Michael

> On 14. Jul 2019, at 10:04, Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org> wrote:
> 
> available at:
>  https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_2019_07_10-2Dwot-2Dminutes.html&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=hCjMtAxRscBPHz_7Q82whg490YmxGhfdidUdSQZ2j9g&e= 
> 
> also as text below.
> 
> Thanks a lot for taking these minutes, Ege!
> 
> Kazuyuki
> 
> ---
> 
>   [1]W3C
> 
>      [1] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.w3.org_&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=smFO1trzUenhscRIJ5X7mKdfrkWyjHPv1dCCxfpiw_c&e= 
> 
>                               - DRAFT -
> 
>                               Wot-IG/WG
> 
> 10 Jul 2019
> 
> Attendees
> 
>   Present
>          Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan,
>          Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_McCool, Michael_Lagally,
>          Takahisa_Suzuki, Taki_Kamiya, Ryuichi_Matsukura,
>          Tomoaki_Mizushima, Michael_Koster, Zoltan_Kis,
>          Tetsushi_Matsuda
> 
>   Regrets
>          Sebastian_Kaebisch
> 
>   Chair
>          McCool
> 
>   Scribe
>          ege
> 
> Contents
> 
>     * [2]Topics
>         1. [3]Reminder of TPAC registration/hotel reservation
>         2. [4]W3C Data Modesl for Transportation WS
>         3. [5]IETF 105 Montereal (Jly 20-27) and WISHI/OPC
>            meeting (July 19)
>         4. [6]Old documents
>         5. [7]WG Charter Extension
>         6. [8]IG Charter under review
>         7. [9]TPAC planning
>         8. [10]Core profile proposal
>         9. [11]TF reports
>        10. [12]PlugFest call
>     * [13]Summary of Action Items
>     * [14]Summary of Resolutions
>     __________________________________________________________
> 
>   <kaz> scribenick: ege
> 
> Reminder of TPAC registration/hotel reservation
> 
>   <kaz> [15]TPAC registration
> 
>     [15] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_2019_09_TPAC_registration.html&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=-ppi2A0xt8XdntkhPpsunFI7jHbxtXOF9ZL4Znv-HfE&e= 
> 
>   <kaz> [16]Accommodation
> 
>     [16] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_2019_09_TPAC_travel.html&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=IowAk84KtYAljF5pvkY6mPv-Isa8qMTrP74ONeX-Uk4&e= 
> 
> W3C Data Modesl for Transportation WS
> 
>   McCool: can taki attend the workshop for data models
> 
>   <kaz> [17]workshop cfp page (12-13 Sep., Palo Alto, US)
> 
>     [17] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_auto_events_data-2Dws-2D2019_cfp.html&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=yEHc08kwM_KGCPtfQlTCbNVlmGlIxY6I8d5iwegyNQY&e= 
> 
>   Taki: I haven't booked flights so I can attend this workshop
>   and fly from there
>   ... physically I am ok
> 
>   McCool: a proposal together?
> 
>   Kaz: like for our workshop, a statement
> 
>   Taki: then I can submit today
> 
>   <kaz> [18]application form
> 
>     [18] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_2002_09_wbs_1_auto-2Ddata-2D01_&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=3X8pliUSRhiqgWChZInwx2EaZiC0XiqsM3U5G5RxxyM&e= 
> 
>   McCool: summarizing what we have done
> 
> IETF 105 Montereal (Jly 20-27) and WISHI/OPC meeting (July 19)
> 
>   McCool: there is a wishi meeting and hackathon
>   ... michael koster is participating
>   ... any other conference that is relevant?
> 
>   Koster: friday 19th we are having a meeting with OMA
> 
>   <mjkoster> this is the agenda for the IETF T2TRG/OMA meeting on
>   Friday the 19th
> 
>   <mjkoster> [19]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_t2trg_2019-2D07-2Doma&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=6nQcKg8J65Lu3dX9AEd1v4XoPNGUazGj8GJXyDNjESw&e= 
> 
>     [19] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_t2trg_2019-2D07-2Doma&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=6nQcKg8J65Lu3dX9AEd1v4XoPNGUazGj8GJXyDNjESw&e= 
> 
>   McCool: I kind of invited myself to that
> 
> Old documents
> 
>   Daniel: googling td on google shows up an old TD proposal that
>   is still marked with a recent date
> 
>   Daniel: it is called JSON Web Thing Description
> 
>   McCool: this shouldn't even be there, it looks like an official
>   document
> 
>   Ege: it is not actually published at this date
> 
>   Kaz: it's just a date respec generates, isn't it?
> 
>   McCool: looks like it
> 
>   Daniel: it is in our repo so we can simply remove it
> 
>   Kaz: we have to tell the Authors/Editors of those old documents
>   gently before removing the documents to remove it
> 
>   McCool: maybe we can put in an archive subdirectory
> 
>   <kaz> [20]proposal directory
> 
>     [20] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_w3c_wot_tree_master_proposals&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=jopvE9p8YGbpXmEz5TbHgg_0icBZeJAVKintEl4Cn6I&e= 
> 
>   McCool: there are a lot of documents in here
> 
>   Kaz: maybe just change the "proposal" folder name to "archive"
> 
>   <kaz> [21]old architecture directory
> 
>     [21] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_w3c_wot_tree_master_architecture&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=IcmfIoFhXgmJHj-5QHggPwz-HVccuIf-d7KM7DGNSPI&e= 
> 
>   (mm creates a directory called ARCHIVE under proposals)
> 
>   Lagally: there is a folder called architecture that should not
>   be in the wot main repo
> 
>   Koster: I think it is better to keep the folder names but
>   simply moving everything under archive
> 
>   McCool: (works on cleaning up the main directory)
> 
>   Kaz: if it is ok for Lagally, we can move the old
>   "architecture" directory under "proposals" first
>   ... and then ask all the editors of old documents about if it's
>   ok to change the name of "proposals" to "archive"
> 
>   <Zakim> dape, you wanted to assign someone to check github for
>   outdated information (to put into ARCHIVE folder)
> 
>   McCool: writing an email to the list
>   ... need to look at what is old, like 2 years
> 
> WG Charter Extension
> 
>   McCool: 6-month exension to WG has been approved (till Dec 31)
> 
>   (Kaz is working on the AC announcement.)
> 
> IG Charter under review
> 
>   <kaz> [22]Wendy's comment
> 
>     [22] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_w3c_wot_issues_835&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=njdoLa6pN49mXz5VmERpiV6wtmRRAL5FWwuljO_C4u0&e= 
> 
>   McCool: giving a wiki site for exploration
>   ... maybe don't need for clarifications on all the bullet
>   points?
>   ... some things are intentionally vague?
> 
>   <kaz> [23]Proposed IG Charter
> 
>     [23] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__w3c.github.io_wot_charters_wot-2Dig-2D2019.html&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=jcCRhQGPoIGw-U-In6EqUB70eDzMlxjuhjECQNKRu0k&e= 
> 
>   McCool: (looks at the PRs by wendy)
>   ... let's merge the charted PR
> 
>   <kaz> (some minor conflict and McCool will look into it later)
> 
>   Kaz: we'd like clarification from alan bird
> 
>   <kaz> [24]Alan's comment for IG Charter (Member-only)
> 
>     [24] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.w3.org_Archives_Member_member-2Dwot-2Dig_2019Jul_0001.html&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=x3uvTseEgTYz2x5r4rvyfJPWzs6dzGty-knQ6sgn0O4&e= 
> 
>   McCool: we have proposed a clear sentence for this comment to
>   be added
>   ... I will ping him and ask him
> 
> TPAC planning
> 
>   Kaz: any joint meeting ideas?
> 
>   McCool: JSON-LD and accesibility would be good
>   ... for Monday, Sep 16 (18:30-22:30)
>   ... I can go to dev meetup
>   ... other attendees can write their names here but you have to
>   register first
> 
> Core profile proposal
> 
>   Lagally: reviews from companies and individuals show some
>   issues
>   ... you have now a formal way of describing devices
>   ... each time a new class of device comes, we can get
>   un-interoperability
>   ... so we need profiles that can guarantee usability of the
>   device
>   ... so we need some constraints
>   ... having only one form
>   ... having string or array of strings, causes an overhead
>   ... constraint on objects, not nested
>   ... not permitting security on lower levels, only one at the
>   top level
>   ... constraints on protocol, having only http
> 
>   McCool: what reduces complexity and what reduces
>   interoperability
>   ... so we should have two categories
> 
>   Lagally: so that constrained devices will be easier to support
>   ... we can have multiple profiles
> 
>   McCool: we can look at the test results and focus on features
>   that are implemented by 3+ implementations
> 
>   Lagally: but what is there as an example to validate the spec
>   and what is an actual product?
> 
>   McCool: we can also add to check what uses HTTP or other
>   profiles
> 
>   Ege: mozilla also talked about having action semantics (a queue
>   for running actions etc.) so maybe we should look into specific
>   behavior of interactions
> 
>   Lagally: interesting point to look into
>   ... where would a new implementer find a guide to do a first
>   implementation
>   ... high level constaints
>   ... (talks about the bullet points of the last slide)
>   ... I was thinking of specifying a default profile
>   ... the proposal is to have a very easy to implement profile
>   ... I am working on a list of constraints
> 
>   McCool: I would keep it simple
> 
>   Lagally: the difficult part would be to define the simple one,
>   a complex one is easier to define but something that can
>   satisfy 80% use cases
> 
>   <Zakim> dape, you wanted to think about ways to identify
>   capabablities.. profile handshake?
> 
>   Daniel: handshake definition
> 
>   McCool: Lagally is proposing the simplest possible
>   ... there will be very probably multiple profiles, smart home
>   and industrial for example
> 
>   Lagally: you can do anything, just that if you stick to the
>   core profile you have a guarantee of wider usability
> 
>   McCool: we need to clarify what are the allowed extensions
> 
>   Lagally: I expect to have a draft within a week
> 
> TF reports
> 
>   [Thing Description]
> 
>   <kaz> [25]Jul-5 TD minutes (member-only)
> 
>     [25] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_2019_07_05-2Dwot-2Dtd-2Dminutes.html&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=MElxC0CxBEcSAq-rqFNGWppPGmceFdHUBzKKfQDgp3g&e= 
> 
>   Ege: protocol bindings will be with TD calls and I will be
>   co-editor of the spec
> 
>   [Archtiecture]
> 
>   <kaz> [26]Jul-4 Arch minutes (member-only)
> 
>     [26] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_2019_07_04-2Dwot-2Darch-2Dminutes.html&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=tRx-LV1ObiPkCqwVtRft4iyF2uW80rmG9meaf4sSpnU&e= 
> 
>   Lagally: architecture - we read the comments of David Baron
>   ... device management is out of scope
>   ... we had some useful comments
>   ... like missing links for the external links
>   ... they also didn't understand what will happen if you parse
>   JSON or JSON-LD
> 
>   <inserted> kaz: note that I sent another reminder to TAG and
>   mentioned it might be going to make sense to have a joint call
>   with them to clarify their questions.
> 
>   McCool: IETF is happening in two weeks
> 
>   Lagally: I would organize the call next week then
>   ... saying that this would be a deadline for us since the week
>   after there will be the IETF meeting
> 
>   Kaz: Daniel Applequist, Yves Lafon and David Baron should be
>   involved
>   ... we should clarify their viewpoints as TAG as a whole
> 
>   [Scripting API]
> 
>   <kaz> (no call on July 8 but updates from Zoltan)
> 
>   scribenick: egekorkan
> 
>   Zoltan: so there are some projects that are already using web
>   of things
>   ... and they need some help
> 
>   <zkis> [27]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.sofie-2Diot.eu_&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=9RYzXdT4_J8-9lPprSx_aalJEyu8PfYd-V6Gzho_grU&e= 
> 
>     [27] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.sofie-2Diot.eu_&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=AqjeMgkQCcDOy0ctVkQaKpiq99ncqsEEKNJ6WqvVNbE&m=eiHSQ6vcjFDSyzU68le409u3MAgzwpsEBVuAF8CIiTw&s=9RYzXdT4_J8-9lPprSx_aalJEyu8PfYd-V6Gzho_grU&e= 
> 
>   McCool: we have extensions
>   ... but how do you do in the scripting api
> 
>   Zoltan: scripting is orthogonal
> 
>   [Security]
> 
>   McCool: security is handled out of hand
> 
>   Zoltan: in payments it is transparent, it is happening in the
>   backend
> 
> PlugFest call
> 
>   McCool: 5 mins break before the plugfest
> 
>   Lagally: let's stay on this call
> 
>   <kaz> [adjourned]
> 
> Summary of Action Items
> 
> Summary of Resolutions
> 
>   [End of minutes]
>     __________________________________________________________
> 
> 
>    Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
>    David Booth's [28]scribe.perl version 1.154 ([29]CVS log)
>    $Date: 2019/07/14 07:45:02 $
> 
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>