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[TF-LD] minutes - 3 August 2018

From: Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org>
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 01:55:13 +0900
Message-ID: <CAJ8iq9XwtubOTy12h3ZFKYVFo5rQBJrzCxHdg3GzFOB-uZxoJg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Public Web of Things IG <public-wot-ig@w3.org>
available at:

also as text below.

Thanks a lot for taking these minutes, Taki!




      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                             WoT IG - TF-LD

03 Aug 2018


          Kaz_Ashimura, Aparna_Thuluva, Danh_Le_Phuoc,
          Taki_Kamiya, Michael_Koster, Maria_Poveda,



          Taki, Kaz


     * [2]Topics
     * [3]Summary of Action Items
     * [4]Summary of Resolutions

   <kaz> scribenick: taki

   <scribe> scribe: TK

   Koster: Semantic API introduction is the topic
   ... Would like to go over TD model
   ... Maybe we can do that first.

   Koster showing issue# 163...


      [5] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/163


      [6] https://github.com/mjkoster/wot-protocol-binding/blob/master/SemanticAPI.pdf

   Koster: I flattened TD, and made diagram
   ... connect data and property and dataschema.

   Koster: property, action, evnet is connected to dataschema

   <kaz> [7]diagram

      [7] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2302085/43042699-601e6152-8d38-11e8-81c4-36580049b1ec.png

   Koster: property directly exposes dataschema

   Koster: TD has ontology, and UML-ish diagram.
   ... I would like to make sure if people are ok with it.
   ... property is a subclassof dataschema, we may need to think
   about this.

   Victor: property is a dataschema, action and event are data

   Koster: data and data specification.
   ... what is the result of the difference?

   Victor: it provides more information for data processing.
   ... property is an instance, action and event are
   ... dataschema no longer exists.

   Kaz: we are using #wot channel for this call.

   Victor showing td.ttl...

   <kaz> [8]td.ttl

      [8] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/master/ontology/td.ttl

   Victor: there is dataschema in td.tll.
   ... action has input and output, which are data specification.

   Koster: data specification in turn relates to dataschema.

   Victor: dataschema class is just for convenience.
   ... could be removed.
   ... data and specification are defined in another module.

   Victor showing json-schema.ttl...

   <kaz> [9]json-schema.ttl

      [9] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/master/ontology/json-schema.ttl

   Koster: Is this the current files?

   Victor: Yes.

   Koster: Does this make sense to everyone?

   Maria: subclass part. I have concern.
   ... property and event.

   Victor: event should not a subclass of something.

   Koster: we all seem to have agreed to that...

   Maria: you do not need to extra classes wrt property.

   Victor: I agree it is not required.

   Danh: event is subclass of data specification?

   Victor: it is temporary just for now.

   Danh proposing new name...

   Victor: Your help in modifying ontology is welcome, Dahn.

   Danh: Is the model the one currently used in TD spec?

   Victor: Yes

   <DanhLePhuoc> TD Draft:

     [10] https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/

   <inserted> More specifically: [11]TD draft's "5. Information

     [11] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/master/ontology/json-schema.ttl

   Koster: data specification is a JSON schema.
   ... data, property and specification. relationship between
   them... action and event are related to specification.
   specification is related to data.
   ... dataschema class may be redundant.
   ... specification is essentially a schema.
   ... input/output are data, right?

   Victor: we can make invoked action, occurred event, those
   classes can be subclass of data.

   Koster: input/output are enough.

   Victor: we can describe how action was invoked through forms.

   Koster: it does not have to desribe how it was invoked.
   ... data is described by schema.
   ... property is subclass of data.
   ... this is good thing, and make sense.
   ... specification is schema.

   Maria: data schema has another URI. we have now three unrelated
   ... how can someone know security model has relatioinship with

   Victor: bridge ontology.
   ... TD specification is W3C specification.

   Maria: how can someone know you have to use three modules?
   ... where is the definition of "data" class?
   ... property is an instance of data.

   Victor: data class will never be used in projects.

   Maria: defined by modules. what is the benefit?

   Victor: in the future, invoked action and occurred event can be
   related to data class.

   Maria: property can be directly connected to data

   Victor: yes, you can.

   Maria: "subclass" requires everyone to do in one manner.

   Victor: "data" is just for future invoked action and occurred
   event, would align well with other ontologies.
   ... you do not need to include "data" in your RDF model.
   ... you ca still have connection between propety and
   ... "data" isSpecifiedBy "specification".
   ... any invoked action has data.

   Koster: invoked action and occurred event will be added to the
   graph, eventually?

   Victor: Yes
   ... I need to spend some time to make sure there is no
   unintended impact.

   <MariaPoveda> "Victor: you do not need to include "data" in
   your RDF model." -> it will be inferred using this model, can't

   Koster: RDF graph is for enrich information, not really for
   ... It was worthwhile to discuss this since most people
   involved in this discussion were present in this call.

   Victor: One issue is Thing Description is described TD spec. I
   hope it won't confuse.
   ... I need to make sure how it aligns with SSN module.

   Danh: schema.org in general tries not to be too strict.

   Maria: Difficulty with SSN is that it still needs domain

   Danh: inconsistent model often become cause problems.

   Koster: constraints vs. avoiding too much constraint needs
   ... data and specification approach sounds like a right
   ... Next call, Darko is out, but I suggest us to have a

   <Zakim> kaz, you wanted to ask about the relationship between
   the TTL file (e.g.,
   tology/td.ttl) and model diagram in TD draft, (2) table in TD
   draft and (3) this visualized structure on the screen

     [12] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/master/ontology/td.ttl)

   Kaz: relationship between three TTL files and specification is
   not clear.
   ... Diagram is written manually, right?
   ... and all the tables are automatically generated.
   ... mismatch can happen, right?

   Victor: They are different representation of shapes.

   Kaz: TTL and diagram can possibly have mismatch.

   <kaz> Kaz: for example, there is mismatch between (1) the
   resource (=TTL files) and (2) the derived results (=Figure 1, 2
   and 3; and description at section 5.2, 5.3 and 5.4) on the TD

   <kaz> [13]td.ttl => [14]"Figure 1 TD core model" and [15]"5.2
   Core Vocabulary Definition"

     [13] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/master/ontology/td.ttl
     [14] https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/td-core-model/td-core-model.svg
     [15] https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#sec-core-vocabulary-definition

   <kaz> [16]json-schema.ttl => [17]"Figure 2 TD data schema
   model" and [18]"5.3 Data Schema Vocabulary Definition"

     [16] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/master/ontology/json-schema.ttl
     [17] https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/td-core-model/td-data-schema-model.svg
     [18] https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#sec-data-schema-vocabulary-definition

   <kaz> [19]security.ttl => [20]"Figure 3 TD security model" and
   [21]"5.4 Security Vocabulary Definition"

     [19] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/master/ontology/security.ttl
     [20] https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/td-core-model/td-security-model.svg
     [21] https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#sec-security-vocabulary-definition

   Victor: diagram ideally should be generated from TTL files.
   ... each module has W3C URL, and accessing the URL gives you
   rendering of the model.

   Kaz: specification and data also should belong to
   ... see section 5.3

   <inserted> Description at section 5.3

   The class DataSchema has the following subclasses:
   * Specification
   * Data

   scribenick: kaz

   Victor: ah, that is a bug...

   Kaz: ok
   ... so the diagrams (Figure 1, 2, 3) are correct and the
   descriptions at Section 5.2, 5.3, 5.4 should be updated. Right?

   Victor: yes

   Kaz: in that case, please skim the TD draft (section 5.2, 5.3
   and 5.4) again and make sure there is no mismatch between the
   description and the Turtle files

   scribenick: taki

   Victor is creating an TD issue...

   Issue# 186

   <kaz> [22]issue 186

     [22] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/186

   Koster: we can continue to review on this in next call, and
   semantic API, etc. two weeks from today.
   ... I will fill in for Darko.

   <kaz> [adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]

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