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Re: inviting MMI guys to the Scritping call? (was Re: [scripting] minutes - 21 November 2016)

From: Hund, Johannes <johannes.hund@siemens.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 07:17:32 +0000
To: Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org>
CC: Public Web of Things IG <public-wot-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <949C8586-7D3D-43BE-B17C-A157B7AC4CD9@siemens.com>
Hi Kaz,

Sorry for the late answer. Sure! If not too late, please ask them to join.

I'd have two other points where we could conclude on:
- how to approach to "language agnostic ": typescript  definition + c-header?

-  conclude on direct callbacks vs. event-emitter vs. -target vs. observable?

Best regards
Johannes


Sent via mobile, so might be more concise than usual.

Am 25.11.2016 um 07:57 schrieb Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org<mailto:ashimura@w3.org>>:

Hi Johannes,

Thanks a lot for your hard work on the WoT Scripting (as well)!

BTW, when I mentioned the latest update on the WoT Scripting
including this (=Web Assembly and EXI) during the MMI WG call
on Monday, the MMI guys were interested and wondering if they
could join the call next Monday (or the next one?) and explain their
latest work as well.

As you know, they're working on the framework to integrate various
user interface modalities (e.g., GUI, speech, touch and sensors) with
Web services and had a joint discussion with Sebastian, Andrei and
Uday during TPAC.

Please see also a diagram on the basic idea of integrating MMI with
WoT:
  https://www.w3.org/2002/mmi/kaz/images/MMI-as-UI-for-WoT.png

Thanks,

Kazuyuki



On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:11 PM, Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org<mailto:ashimura@w3.org>> wrote:
available at:
  https://www.w3.org/2016/11/21-wot-minutes.html

also as text below.

Thanks for taking these minutes, Yingying!

Kazuyuki

---
   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                           WoT AP TF Meeting

21 Nov 2016

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/11/21-wot-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Kaz_Ashimura, Ben_L_Titzer, Dave_Raggett, Johannes_Hund,
          Kazuaki_Nimura, Yingying_Chen, Zoltan_Kis,
          Daniel_Peintner, Masato_Ohura

   Regrets
   Chair
          Johannes

   Scribe
          Yingying

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Web Assembly Community Group update
         2. [5]EXI
         3. [6]Sharing what we talked about in last session
     * [7]Summary of Action Items
     * [8]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <scribe> scribenick: yingying_

Web Assembly Community Group update

   <kaz> [9]Web Assembly CG

      [9] https://www.w3.org/community/webassembly/

   <jhund> [10]Ben's slides on Webassembly

     [10] https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1zOWdvXTl_jZNup_-oyoB-0QiQOcikSUrpSP2bKZMk28/edit#slide=id.g13b9fc0958_0_0

   [Ben from Web Assembly CG is sharing the screen]

   Ben: last June we went toward release.
   ... WebAssembly in a nutshell.
   ... data types, functions are flat, state, stack
   ... data operation: you can call functions directly or
   indirectly.

   [a picture of trusted and untrusted state]

   [compiling c/c++ to WebAssembly]

   Ben: can run with similar performance for C/c++

   [showing a picture of the module structure]

   [Types, Imports, Function Declarations, Function Tables, ...]

   Ben: I'll show what the bytecode looks like.
   ... the goal are compact, easy to verify and compile and
   extensible.
   ... design stack machine with local variables.
   ... this is an example of bytecode.
   ... maybe you are interested in where we are.
   ... people can still give comments but if not it will go as it
   is.
   ... this is what our roadmap looks like.
   ... 3 browsers full implementation are expected.
   ... that's for my presentation. Hope it gave you guys an
   overview. Are there any questions from you?

   Daniel: features like several return values, JS APIs. Will you
   bring these features to JS?

   Ben: yes. In new version, the features will be added to JS by
   WebAssembly.

   Daniel: you will compile to mini file JS.

   Ben: 10-20 percent compaction.

   Johannes: people originally write applications in c/c++ not
   targeted at JS. All the code is run in the sandbox of browser?

   Ben: yes.

   <Zakim> kaz, you wanted to ask Ben if it's possible for him to
   send the slides to the public list

   Kaz: could you provide your slides to the public mailing list?

   Ben: yes.

   Kaz: Do you have any idea on capability for state transition?

   Ben: I have no contact for that.
   ... it does not really benefit the JS.

   Zkis: if it's possible that JS can be translated into
   WebAssembly and used for constraint devices?

   Ben: WebAssembly is very low level.

   Johannes: if there are high performance requirements of your
   code, you could use WebAssembly.
   ... it's different from running the JS on constraint devices.
   ... thank you very much Ben.
   ... Daniel could you update us the EXI?

EXI

   Daniel: yes. EXI represents XML efficiently
   ... also have XML to support JSON, etc.
   ... you can process it very fast. Very quick for loading at
   very beginning.
   ... use EXI processor to encode and decode.
   ... next step is how you could use EXI in JS in the decoder
   side. It's still at the very beginning.
   ... any questions?

   Johannes: thanks Daniel

   Daniel: we don't change the syntax of JS.
   ... it's just the sequence of events that you can jump over.
   ... you have some pre-knowledge.
   ... it uses all the built-in types.

   Johannes: EXI is built for XML. In JS, make the parser faster.
   ... We have been doing some experiments for constraint embedded
   devices. I could not make Samsung people join today's meeting.
   ... I see both ways (WebAssembly and EXI) seem promising. Maybe
   it's good to see every now and then what happened in these two
   areas.
   ... targeting for constraint devices.

Sharing what we talked about in last session

   Johannes: moved the proposals to
   [11]https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/master/scripting/proposals.
   ... this is where we are so far.
   ... Zoltan, could you update the UCs we discussed in last call?

     [11] https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/master/scripting/proposals.

   zoltan: I haven't yet made it. Will try to make it for next
   call.
   ... I will make a pull request.

   Johannes: we are aiming to do the application layer
   abstraction. The WG charter is under AC review.
   ... the application could run in the runtime from vendor A and
   then ports to vendor B, maybe in future on TV. This is the goal
   of this TF.
   ... building blocks: TD, scripting APIs, protocol bindings.
   ... any other business?
   ... thank you everybody. See you in next week.

   [adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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--
Kaz Ashimura, W3C Staff Contact for Auto, WoT, TV, MMI and Geo
Tel: +81 3 3516 2504
Received on Monday, 28 November 2016 07:18:11 UTC

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