- From: Jonathan Garbee <jonathan@garbee.me>
- Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 17:25:33 -0400
- To: WHAT Working Group <whatwg@lists.whatwg.org>
I think it should be up to the developer to chose the default subtitles they want. What if someone is trying to localize a page, and the default subtitle is always English when they want Spanish? If not specified, the default subtitle should be the language specified of the page or video. But, if a specific subtitle language is told to the browser it should use that. On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Eric Carlson <eric.carlson@apple.com>wrote: > > On Apr 11, 2013, at 3:54 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > I think Eric is right - we need a new @kind="forced" or > @kind="forcedSubtitles" value on track elements, because they behave > differently from the subtitle kind: > > * are not listed in a track menu > > * are turned on by browser when no other subtitle or caption track is on > > * multiple forced subtitles tracks can be on at the same time (see > discussion at https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21667 ) > > > > I only wonder how the browser is meant to identify for which language it > needs to turn on the forced subtitles. If it should depend on the language > of the audio track of the video rather than the browser's default language > setting, maybe it will need to be left to the server to pick which tracks > to list and all forced tracks are on, no matter what? Did you have any > ideas on this, Eric? > > > I believe it should be the language of the video's primary audio track, > because forced subtitles are enabled in a situation where the user can > presumably understand the dialog being spoken in the track's language and > has not indicated a preference for captions or subtitles. > > eric > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 4:08 AM, Eric Carlson <eric.carlson@apple.com> > wrote: > > > > In working with real-world content with in-band subtitle tracks, I have > realized that the spec doesn't accommodate "forced" subtitles. Forced > subtitles are used when a video has dialog or text in a language that is > different from the main language. For example in the Lord of the Rings, > dialog in Elvish is subtitled so those of us that don't speak Elvish can > understand. > > > > This is only an issue for users that do not already have > subtitles/captions enabled, because standard caption/subitle tracks are > expected to mix the translations into the other captions in the track. In > other words, if I enable an English caption track I will get English > captions for the dialog spoken in English and the dialog spoken in Elvish. > However, users that do not typically have subtitles enabled also need to > have the Elvish dialog translated so subtitle providers typically provide a > second subtitle track with *only* the forced subtitles. > > > > UAs are expected to automatically enable a forced-only subtitle track > when no other caption/subtitle track is visible and there is a forced-only > track in the same language of the primary audio track. This means that when > I watch a version of LOTR that has been dubbed into French and I do not > have a subtitle or caption track enabled, the UA will automatically show > French forced subtitles if they are available. > > > > Because forced subtitles are meant to be enabled automatically by the > UA, it is essential that the UA is able to differentiate between "normal" > and "forced" subtitles. It is also important because forced subtitles are > not typically listed in the caption menu, again because the captions in > them are also in the "normal" subtitles/captions. > > > > I therefore propose that we add a new @kind value for forced subtitles. > "Forced" is a widely used term in the industry, so I think "forced" is the > appropriate value. > > > > eric > > > > > > > >
Received on Monday, 15 April 2013 21:26:03 UTC