- From: Markus Ernst <derernst@gmx.ch>
- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 10:42:06 +0200
Am 14.06.2011 18:06 schrieb Tab Atkins Jr.: > On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 2:04 AM, Markus Ernst<derernst at gmx.ch> wrote: >> Am 14.06.2011 09:32 schrieb Ian Hickson: >>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2011, Markus Ernst wrote: >>>> Consider this markup of Andy's use case: >>>> >>>> <p>I always like to eat these cheeses: >>>> <il> >>>> <ili>Cheddar</ili>, >>>> <ili>Stilton</ili>, and >>>> <ili>Red Lester</ili>, >>>> </il> >>>> but I enjoy them most with one of these biscuits: >>>> <il> >>>> <ili>wheat crackers</ili>, >>>> <ili>rye crackers</ili>, >>>> <ili>digestives</ili>, >>>> </il> >>>> and some chutney.</p> >>>> >>>> <il> stands for "inline list",<ili> for "inline list item" (it's a pity >>>> we can't reuse<li> for BC reasons). Conforming UAs would be required to >>>> ignore any content in an<il> element, except it is in an<ili> element. >>>> Like that, the above example would be perfectly readable in legacy UAs, >>>> but make sense in HTML5-capable UAs. >>>> >>>> It would even be easy to stlye the output for legacy UAs supporting >>>> display:list-item, as this example illustrates: >>>> http://www.markusernst.ch/stuff_for_the_world/list-test.html >>> >>> What problem does this solve? >> >> It solves the first use case Jukka mentioned in his original post: >> >> Am 10.03.2011 09:20 schrieb Jukka K. Korpela: >>> The<p> element (ever since it became an element) has always allowed >>> inline (text-level) content only, and no change is planned to this in >>> HTML5. Under these circumstances, what should we say to people to >>> need to use paragraphs that contain lists, for example? > > So does Hixie's answer of "Tell them to use two<p>s and a<ul>". His > answer has the benefit of not requiring any changes to HTML, and not > introducing a fourth type of list that is only very subtly different > from<ul>. Am 15.06.2011 09:09 schrieb Jukka K. Korpela: > > <div class="p"> > <p>This is text, which may be just list header (introduction to > the list) or a longer presentation. > <ul> > <li>an item</li> > <li>another item</li> > </ul> > <p>Here we may have text that logically continues the discussion > of the topic.</p> > </div> > > * * * > > I know this suggestion is long and raw, but I hope its basic content > is something we can agree on. And I have no big problem with using > div markup here, even though it somewhat goes against the spirit of > modern HTML. This results in: <div class="p"> <p>I always like to eat these cheeses:</p> <ul> <li>Cheddar</li>, <li>Stilton</li>, and <li>Red Lester</li>, </ul> <p>but I enjoy them most with one of these biscuits:</p> <ul> <li>wheat crackers</li>, <li>rye crackers</li>, <li>digestives</li>, </ul> <p>and some chutney.</p> </div> I don't like this, because it is a hackish workaround for a quite basic problem. Lots of HTML is actually authored by non-programmers using online rich text editors - both the editor softwares and their users will be quite hard to teach about using such constructs. I strongly assume that the following kind of solution is more likely to occur: <p style="margin-bottom:0">I always like to eat these cheeses:</p> <ul style="margin:0"> <li>Cheddar</li>, <li>Stilton</li>, and <li>Red Lester</li>, </ul> <p style="margin:0">but I enjoy them most with one of these biscuits:</p> <ul style="margin:0"> <li>wheat crackers</li>, <li>rye crackers</li>, <li>digestives</li>, </ul> <p style="margin-top:0">and some chutney.</p> The main issue here is the fact that you can't just apply styling to the list element, but have to apply it to the surrounding <p>s, too. Inline lists would make this kind of things definitely easier and better. Of course I understand the benefit of not requiring any changes to HTML, but actually the HTML5 process is about making changes to HTML. I don't have a big problem with using this kind of markup either, but the same applies for using <div>s instead of <article>s and <section>s.
Received on Wednesday, 15 June 2011 01:42:06 UTC