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[whatwg] whatwg Digest, Vol 76, Issue 101

From: Laurence Gillian <lau@voodoodog.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 20:56:52 +0100
Message-ID: <8BB3E8A4-C455-4478-99A8-96FC982D09C7@voodoodog.com>
I'm with Boris on this one; Laurie

/L

Sent from my iPhone


On 31 Jul 2010, at 20:08, whatwg-request at lists.whatwg.org wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags (Boris Zbarsky)
>   2. Re: "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags (Roger H?gensen)
>   3. Re: "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags (Roger H?gensen)
>   4. Re: "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags (Roger H?gensen)
>   5. Re: "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags (Boris Zbarsky)
>   6. Re: "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags (Roger H?gensen)
>   7. Re: "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags (Boris Zbarsky)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:17:44 -0400
> From: Boris Zbarsky <bzbarsky at MIT.EDU>
> To: whatwg at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [whatwg] "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags
> Message-ID: <4C5387C8.4050203 at mit.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> On 7/30/10 9:57 PM, Roger H?gensen wrote:
>> <a href="stuff.zip" download>This defaults to application/octet-stream
>> and clicking the link will behave as if the user selected Save As from
>> UI context menu!</a>
> 
> I would object to implementing this.  I have no problem putting up a 
> dialog asking the user whether to save or open in a helper app, but I 
> see no reason why I should force saving on the user, as a browser 
> developer.  If the user wants to open your zip in a zip reader, why 
> shouldn't he?
> 
> -Boris
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 04:20:06 +0200
> From: Roger H?gensen <rescator at emsai.net>
> To: whatwg at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [whatwg] "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags
> Message-ID: <4C538856.4090105 at emsai.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> On 2010-07-31 03:57, Roger H?gensen wrote:
> 
> Another example:
> 
> <a href="cool.png" download><image src="cool_sm.jpg"></a>
> 
> How many here have had that wishful thinking work exactly like you wanted?
> That is the minimal use case, old browsers would behave as currently,
> those supporting this on the other hand would always present an expected 
> Save As.
> I'm sure half the websites out there that display a thumbnail image but 
> links to a larger or original image would jump at this.
> 
> Another minimal example would be:
> 
> <image src="cool_sm.jpg"> <a href="cool.png" download>Download the full 
> image!</a>
> 
> Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Screenreaders (you know, usually for those 
> blind folks) would also benefit for this as ther would be no ambiguity 
> as to what action should be taken.
> Obviously the two examples about do not make that much sense, but 
> imagine if it was the audio example from my other post instead, instead 
> of potentially having the browser try and play the audio
> it would instead download it to where the user would prefer (if it all), 
> that way one could have a low quality <audio> and a <a href download> 
> next to it that let you download the higher quality audio.
> 
> -- 
> Roger "Rescator" H?gensen.
> Freelancer - http://EmSai.net/
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 04:27:40 +0200
> From: Roger H?gensen <rescator at emsai.net>
> To: whatwg at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [whatwg] "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags
> Message-ID: <4C538A1C.1050804 at emsai.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> On 2010-07-31 04:17, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
>> On 7/30/10 9:57 PM, Roger H?gensen wrote:
>>> <a href="stuff.zip" download>This defaults to application/octet-stream
>>> and clicking the link will behave as if the user selected Save As from
>>> UI context menu!</a>
>> 
>> I would object to implementing this.  I have no problem putting up a 
>> dialog asking the user whether to save or open in a helper app, but I 
>> see no reason why I should force saving on the user, as a browser 
>> developer.  If the user wants to open your zip in a zip reader, why 
>> shouldn't he?
>> 
>> -Boris
>> 
> 
> When I say the "Save As" UI I mean the one you get currently, which 
> varies, some browsers only provide a Save As and Cancel, while others 
> provide Save As with Open and Cancel.
> So based on your remarks, maybe the spec could state that if a browser 
> believe it can handle the file type then it should present a Open + Save 
> As UI,
> but if it can not handle the filetype (aka handling un-configured or the 
> user set the browser's settings this way) then it should just present 
> Save As without Open.
> 
> So thanks for pointing that out, as I actually have been annoyed in the 
> past with how different browsers do downloads UIs, and this time we can 
> actually establish expected default UI behavior from the ground up 
> (however the user should still be able to alter settings to change the 
> default behavior, and ther is nothing preventing a Browser maker from 
> enhancing the UI even further.).
> 
> 
> -- 
> Roger "Rescator" H?gensen.
> Freelancer - http://EmSai.net/
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 04:42:48 +0200
> From: Roger H?gensen <rescator at emsai.net>
> To: whatwg at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [whatwg] "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags
> Message-ID: <4C538DA8.3050404 at emsai.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
> 
> On 2010-07-30 20:54, Eduard Pascual wrote:
>> Let me complement the proposal with a use case:
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3358209/triggering-a-file-download-without-any-server-request
>> 
> 
> Now something like that is a bit more tricky, but can't Javascript 
> actually trigger a proper Save As?
> Something like <a href="#" onclick="*javascript*: 
> document.execCommand('Save As','1','saveMe.csv');"><img 
> src="./images/*save*.png"></a>
> 
> Should in theory work, but I think browser support for that is spotty, 
> so the solution to that stackoverflow post either lies in deep 
> Javascript vodoo.
> Or make a suggestion to the Javascript "folks" would be better? In any 
> case a download attribute would only improve such a functionality (if 
> javascript support it) even further by displaying the proper UI.
> 
> -- 
> Roger "Rescator" H?gensen.
> Freelancer - http://EmSai.net/
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:52:06 -0400
> From: Boris Zbarsky <bzbarsky at MIT.EDU>
> To: whatwg at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [whatwg] "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags
> Message-ID: <4C538FD6.1070908 at mit.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> On 7/30/10 10:27 PM, Roger H?gensen wrote:
>>> On 7/30/10 9:57 PM, Roger H?gensen wrote:
>>>> <a href="stuff.zip" download>This defaults to application/octet-stream
>>>> and clicking the link will behave as if the user selected Save As from
>>>> UI context menu!</a>
> ....
> 
>> When I say the "Save As" UI I mean the one you get currently, which
>> varies, some browsers only provide a Save As and Cancel, while others
>> provide Save As with Open and Cancel.
> 
> I can't name a single browser that provides an "Open" option if you 
> select "Save As" from the context menu.  Can you?
> 
>> So based on your remarks, maybe the spec could state that if a browser
>> believe it can handle the file type then it should present a Open + Save
>> As UI,
>> but if it can not handle the filetype (aka handling un-configured or the
>> user set the browser's settings this way) then it should just present
>> Save As without Open.
> 
> So you mean the browser should act as if content-disposition:attachment 
> were specified?  Why not just say that?
> 
> -Boris
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 04:59:42 +0200
> From: Roger H?gensen <rescator at emsai.net>
> To: whatwg at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [whatwg] "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags
> Message-ID: <4C53919E.5010406 at emsai.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> On 2010-07-31 04:52, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
>> 
>>> When I say the "Save As" UI I mean the one you get currently, which
>>> varies, some browsers only provide a Save As and Cancel, while others
>>> provide Save As with Open and Cancel.
>> 
>> I can't name a single browser that provides an "Open" option if you 
>> select "Save As" from the context menu.  Can you?
> 
> Not explicitly, but if you click the link for example, but this would 
> also allow enhancing the explicit Save As (by letting the browser know 
> the filetype more accurately and present My Documents, or My Images etc. 
> folder destination if supported by browser obviously)
> 
>> 
>>> So based on your remarks, maybe the spec could state that if a browser
>>> believe it can handle the file type then it should present a Open + Save
>>> As UI,
>>> but if it can not handle the filetype (aka handling un-configured or the
>>> user set the browser's settings this way) then it should just present
>>> Save As without Open.
>> 
>> So you mean the browser should act as if 
>> content-disposition:attachment were specified?  Why not just say that?
> 
> Um. Because this (the topic by the original poster) is about exactly 
> that? *smiles*
> 
> 
> -- 
> Roger "Rescator" H?gensen.
> Freelancer - http://EmSai.net/
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:13:05 -0400
> From: Boris Zbarsky <bzbarsky at MIT.EDU>
> To: whatwg at lists.whatwg.org
> Subject: Re: [whatwg] "Content-Disposition" property for <a> tags
> Message-ID: <4C5394C1.4000803 at mit.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> On 7/30/10 10:59 PM, Roger H?gensen wrote:
>> On 2010-07-31 04:52, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
>>> 
>>>> When I say the "Save As" UI I mean the one you get currently, which
>>>> varies, some browsers only provide a Save As and Cancel, while others
>>>> provide Save As with Open and Cancel.
>>> 
>>> I can't name a single browser that provides an "Open" option if you
>>> select "Save As" from the context menu. Can you?
>> 
>> Not explicitly, but if you click the link for example
> 
> That's a totally different operation.
> 
>>> So you mean the browser should act as if
>>> content-disposition:attachment were specified? Why not just say that?
>> 
>> Um. Because this (the topic by the original poster) is about exactly
>> that? *smiles*
> 
> Right.  I'm fine with the original proposal; just not with the 
> modification you suggested to take away user choice about what to do 
> with the data.
> 
> -Boris
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
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> End of whatwg Digest, Vol 76, Issue 101
> ***************************************
Received on Saturday, 31 July 2010 12:56:52 UTC

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