W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > whatwg@whatwg.org > April 2010

[whatwg] Introduction of media accessibility features

From: Anne van Kesteren <annevk@opera.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 16:03:22 +0900
Message-ID: <op.va8tvwd064w2qv@annevk-t60>
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 15:49:38 +0900, Silvia Pfeiffer  
<silviapfeiffer1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Anne van Kesteren <annevk at opera.com>  
> wrote:
>> A spec would also need to be written if we go for this new
>> TTML-minus-certain-features-and-using-CSS-rather-than-XSL-FO format.  
>> That would probably be worse since we would be forking an existing  
>> format in an incompatible way.
>
> No forking - just specifying a mapping of the things that are
> supportable. And yes: that needs to be written too.

Sounds like a fork to me. E.g. if we don't want a new parser for <color>  
values (and we really don't) and use the CSS parser things would be  
different.


>>> Also, if we are introducing HTML markup inside SRT time cues, then it
>>> would make sense to turn the complete SRT file into markup, not just
>>> the part inside the time cue. Further, SRT has no way to specify which
>>> language it is written in and further such general mechanisms that
>>> already exist for HTML.
>>
>> What general mechanisms are needed exactly? Why is language needed?  
>> Isn't that already specified by the embedder?
>
> I guess the problem is more with char sets.
> For HTML pages and other Web content, there is typically information
> inside the resource that tells you what character set the document is
> written in. E.g. HTML pages have
> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">.
> Such functionality is not available for SRT, so it is impossible for a
> browser to tell what charset to use to render the content in.

It would simply always be UTF-8, much like text/cache-manifest and  
text/event-stream.


> And yes, we have made an adjustment in the Media Associations spec for
> <track> to contain a hint on what mime type and charset the external
> document is specified in. But that is only a bad fix of SRT's problem.
> It should be available inside the file so that any application can use
> the SRT file without requiring additional information.

I guess.


> The extended SRT file will barely have anything in common with the
> original ones. There is more HTML markup to learn than SRT markup. And
> having HTML markup encapsulated in a non-html file is just weird.
> Also, the numbering through of the captions is honestly not very
> useful.

Yeah, maybe you're right.


> (3) TTML file: (no hyperlinks, no images - just for comparison)
>
> ---
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
> <tt xml:lang="en_us" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml">
>   <head>
>     <styling>
>       <style xml:id="left-align"
>         tts:fontFamily="proportionalSansSerif"
>         tts:textAlign="left"
>       />
>       <style xml:id="right-align"
>         tts:fontFamily="monospaceSerif"
>         tts:textAlign="right"
>       />
>       <style xml:id="speaker"
>         tts:fontFamily="monospaceSerif"
>         tts:textAlign="left"
>         tts:fontWeight="bold"
>       />
>     </styling>
>     <layout>
>       <region xml:id="subtitleArea"
>         tts:extent="560px 62px"
>         tts:padding="5px 3px"
>       />
>     </layout>
>   </head>
>   <body region="subtitleArea">
>     <div>
>       <p style="left-align" begin="0.15s" end="0.17s 951ms">
>         <div style="speaker">Proog:</div>
>         <div tts:color="green">At the <span
> tts:fontStyle="italic">left</span> we can see...</div>
>       </p>
>       <p style="right-align" begin="0.18s 166ms" end="0.20s 83ms">
>         <div tts:color="green">At the right we can see the...</div>
>       </p>
>     </div>
>   </body>
> </tt>
> ---

That this sample file has namespace errors and is therefore not  
well-formed is part of the reason I think TTML is a very bad idea.  
(Besides giving a new meaning to a bunch of HTML-like elements.)


> (4) possibly new xml/html-ish file:
>
> [...]
>
> I think (4) is preferable over (2) for the more consistent markup and
> actual xml parsability.

I don't buy the XML parser argument (as a) an XML parser is not much  
simpler because of the internal subset and b) it comes with namespaces),  
but I can see how a new format might be somewhat better-looking than  
something based on SRT.


-- 
Anne van Kesteren
http://annevankesteren.nl/
Received on Friday, 16 April 2010 00:03:22 UTC

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