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[whatwg] <dialog> removal

From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 11:48:29 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0910041146340.25383@hixie.dreamhostps.com>
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009, Jonas Sicking wrote:
> >
> > Neither <dialog> nor <meter> were added because they are expected to 
> > be used in great numbers. Both were added to prevent another element 
> > from being _mis_used. (Specifically, <dialog> takes away from the risk 
> > of people marking up dialogs as association lists, and <meter> takes 
> > away from the risk of people marking up gauges as progress bars.)
> 
> While I can see the argument for <meter>, I'm not sure I see it with 
> <dialog>. First of all, as others have pointed out, <dialog> is 
> generally not feature-full enough to mark up dialogs. Second, given that 
> association lists already exist, we should be able to check existing 
> pages to see if people are abusing lists to mark up dialogs.
> 
> I started by looking at some sites with the Romeo and Juliet play:
> 
> http://www.william-shakespeare.info/act1-script-text-romeo-and-juliet.htm
> Uses <br>
> 
> http://shakespearemiami.tripod.com/id22.html
> Uses <blockquote>
> 
> http://shakespeare.mit.edu/romeo_juliet/full.html
> Uses <blockquote>
> 
> http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/r/romeo-and-juliet-script-screenplay.html
> Uses <pre>
> 
> http://www.clicknotes.com/romeo/T11.html
> <p> and <br>
> 
> http://www.opensourceshakespeare.org/views/plays/play_view.php?WorkID=romeojuliet&Act=1&Scene=1&Scope=scene
> One <ul><li>...</li></ul> for each quote.
> 
> http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521618700&ss=exc
> Uses <p>
> 
> 
> I also looked for transcripts of the frost/nixon interview:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2007/sep/07/greatinterviews1
> Uses <p>
> 
> http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/06/inspiration-by-digby-as-constitutional.html
> Uses <br>
> 
> http://www.ourblook.com/Reporters-and-the-Media/The-Nixon-Interviews-with-David-Frost.html
> Uses <br>
> 
> http://remember-nixon.org/
> Uses <pre>
> 
> https://pol.moveon.org/archive/breakingthelaw_sub1.html
> Basically uses one <ul><li>...</li></ul> for each quote.
> 
> http://belowthebeltway.com/2009/04/30/condi-rice-channels-richard-nixon-if-the-president-authorizes-it-its-not-illegal/
> Uses <p>
> 
> 
> I also looked at transcripts for the "Silly Job Interview" play by Monty Python:
> 
> http://www.orangecow.org/pythonet/sketches/intview.htm
> Uses <p>
> (this site does use a list, but not for the actual dialog)
> 
> http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode05.htm
> Uses a table with a <tr> for each line in the dialog.
> (This is actually another monty python skit, but it turned up in my
> search and I figured it didn't really matter)
> 
> http://montypython.50webs.com/scripts/Series_1/35.htm
> Uses <p>
> 
> http://www.ulrikchristensen.dk/scripts/montypython/sillyjob.html
> Uses <p>
> 
> http://www.cardinalfang.net/episodes/season_one/silly_job_interview.html
> Uses <p> (and <o:p>)
> 
> 
> Finally I simply did a google search for "interview transcript":
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/28/60minutes/main590381.shtml
> Uses <br>
> 
> http://www.pokerlistings.com/blog/ashman103-the-interview-transcript
> Uses <p>
> 
> http://www.pgatour.com/2009/tournaments/r027/08/30/sunday.transcript.slocum/index.html
> Uses <p>
> 
> http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/8/15/990765/clyde-drexler-interview-transcript
> Uses <p>
> 
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7065633
> Uses <p>
> 
> http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2008/05/bill_belichicks.html
> Uses <p>
> 
> http://d5.allthingsd.com/20070531/d5-gates-jobs-transcript/
> Uses <p>
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/nov/08/dizzee-rascal-paxman-jeremy-bbc
> Uses <p>
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/jaycee-lee-dugard/6105540/Phillip-Garridos-interview-transcript.html
> Uses <p>
> 
> http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=2594
> Uses <p>
> 
> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article2777973.ece
> Uses <p>
> 
> http://www.cdi.org/adm/1351/Yafei.html
> Uses <p>
> 
> http://www.ronsuskind.com/thewayoftheworld/transcripts/
> Uses <p>
> 
> http://www.anusha.com/osamaint.htm
> Uses <p>

Thanks for this research!

Based on the data above, I removed <dialog> (a few weeks ago now), and 
replaced it with a section on how to mark up conversations that tries to 
pave the cowpath that most of the above walk (namely, using <p>).

(Sorry for the late replying relative to the time of the edit.)

-- 
Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Received on Sunday, 4 October 2009 04:48:29 UTC

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