- From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
- Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 00:13:56 +0000 (UTC)
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > > I think there are two competing ideas here that are sometimes in > tension: > > A) Web applications are just Web pages and should be indistinguishable > from any other Web page. > > B) Web applications are just applications and should be > indistinguishable from any other (e.g. native) application. > > Obviously the Web platform has a long way to go to really achieve B, and > it is important to preserve the strengths of the Web in the course of > making Web applications give something closer to a native experience > (security, accessibility, ubiquitousness, platform-independence, etc). > > The way I think of standalone(*) Web applications is that they should > work well in the browser context, but be able to provide progressive > enhancement when in standalone mode. For example, native applications > have custom icons in the Dock under Mac OS X, but pages in a browser > window do not, so we let Web applications have the ability to customize > the icon only when running in standalone mode. > > * - When I say "standalone Web application" I am referring to mechanisms > like Mozilla Prism, Fluid, and Safari 4's "Save as Web Application" > feature. > > I am probably largely preaching to the choir here, but I wanted to give > the premises for our thinking. The above makes sense to me. > > > In support of this new area of interest, I propose two new additions > > > to the ClientInformation interface as follows: > > > > > > First: "readonly attribute boolean standalone;" > > > > I am very concerned about Web authors doing exactly this, and would in > > fact strongly like to encourage authors not to do this. Can you give > > an example of a use case where there would be a difference? > > We did not initially think there was a need for this, but multiple > developer requests changed our mind. In retrospect, however, they all > boil down to customizing the UI when the window's toolbar is not present > (to use the extra space on small fixed-size screens, or to add visual > weight to the top of the window on large screens). And this can already > be determined via "toolbar.visible". In fact that would do the right > thing even in user agents that always or never show a toolbar, so that > is probably the right thing to recommend. > > The other possible use case would be to avoid displaying any "save as > Web app" UI, but that is better handled by that feature. > > Brady, what do you think? Would toolbar.visible work ok for this? I've specced out window.toolbar.visible. > > Things like changing the look based on what the author knows of the > > "standalone mode" of their own browser is very dangerous, as it would > > result in things clashing with other browsers' looks and feels. > > Browsers do already report some information about the UI, and it is > probably better to reuse that than to invent something new that has a > less direct relationship. Yeah. > [...] Do you have any implementation experience with <bb type="makeapp">? -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Received on Friday, 16 January 2009 16:13:56 UTC