- From: Tab Atkins Jr. <jackalmage@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 12:04:21 -0500
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Andy Lyttle <whatwg at phroggy.com> wrote: > On Sep 30, 2008, at 7:57 AM, Garrett Smith wrote: > >> If and until user enters text, the "alternate" text is displayed. >> >> The confusing part is that successfully rendered inputs would be >> rendered and still use the alt. >> >> The good part is that it would be (or should be) accessible for screen >> readers. >> > > But alt here as you're describing it doesn't mean the same thing as alt > anywhere else. On an image, alt text says "this means the same thing as > what's supposed to be displayed." A placeholder does NOT mean the same > thing as whatever the user is going to enter. > > On the bright side, doing what you suggest shouldn't break anything because > I'm sure nobody's using it. However, I don't think that just because we > have an existing property defined that's used on other tags with a different > meaning, we should reuse that property for this meaning instead of defining > a new property. Agreed. Using @alt is a semantic hack. For the benefit of myself and others, I'm going to summarize the four current proposals. 1) @placeholder Pro: Already implemented in one major browser. Is opt-in, so doesn't interfere with existing content at all. Degrades acceptably. Con: Duplicates semantics already present in <label>, @alt, and @title to some extent. Is essentially a presentational attribute. Not (currently) accessible. Won't be widely usable until all browsers support it (ie, degrades silently rather than usefully). 2) @alt Pro: Presumably accessible to people with screen readers. Probably not currently in use at all, so new function won't disrupt existing content. Con: Semantic hack - it's not "alternative content", it's *normal* content, just used to introduce the element. May collide with future uses of @alt if a UI allows form elements to not be displayed (however, no idea how/why this would work) 3) @title Pro: Reasonably semantic. Relatively similar in current usage. Degrades acceptably. Con: Good reasons to allow both placeholder text *and* tooltips. Can break existing content that either expects @title info in a tooltip, or that has @title that is too long to be placed easily in the <input>. Not accessible. 4) <label> (moving label textual content into <input> as placeholder text; currently with Javascript to mutate the DOM, in the future with CSS to present the desired appearance while keeping the DOM stable) Pro: Most semantic. Can be pushed site-wide without having to change page code. Can't break existing content, because it is opt-in (unless this gets put into browser default stylesheets). Accessible (if using CSS solution; probably not accessible if DOM mutation is employed). Degrades well (just stays an ordinary visible label if browser doesn't support the rule). Con: Most complex solution for implementors. Need to push proposal through CSS WG, which can be slower than WHATWG. ~TJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/attachments/20080930/0da19983/attachment.htm>
Received on Tuesday, 30 September 2008 10:04:21 UTC