- From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
- Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:44:11 +0000 (UTC)
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008, Ojan Vafai wrote: > > This is a useful property on any text input element. Seems like it > should apply to textareas as well as contentEditable elements and > iframes with designMode on. I can point to real-world examples of the > latter if need be. I think it's acceptable that it be a plain-text > string in all cases, but that it ought to also be CSS styleable. I don't > know if html5 is the right place to spec that. WebKit currently uses the > input::-webkit-input-placeholder. I think for contentEditable it's definitely not something we want to support natively; I've no idea how that would even work. I'd recommend doing it in CSS, using generated content based on the title="" attribute or some such. For <textarea>, a placeholder value seems odd. Do you have examples of people doing that? On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > > I was asking, obviously, what use is a default value if you can't edit > it. If an enabled text field had a displayed value= but the value was > not actually editable, that would be unpleasantly surprising. > > That problem applies just as much to <input placeholder="foo"> as it > would have done to <input value="foo" clearonfocus>: depending on > whether the placeholder text is greyed out, it would make the field > either look like it has a value when it actually doesn't, or look > disabled when it actually isn't. It would also hide the label or hint > for the field for *precisely* the period when you need it most. I'm not > aware of any possible presentation that avoids both (or even one of!) > those problems, and previously HTML5 has shied away from expecting > browsers to implement things that have no known reasonable presentation. > > I appreciate that Web authors currently go to some scripting lengths to > position labels for text fields inside the fields, and I think it's > quite appropriate that they should have to go to those lengths, because > it makes bad design more difficult. I would rather see, as I've > previously suggested, markup for associating form controls with hints > outside them in a similar way as labels can be associated now. I understand your position, but it seems that the industry has moved towards this as a pretty standard feature of user interfaces now, for better or worse. -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Received on Tuesday, 2 December 2008 02:44:11 UTC