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[whatwg] WebWorker questions

From: Kristof Zelechovski <giecrilj@stegny.2a.pl>
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:24:02 +0200
Message-ID: <D88BD34B868948DBA3ADE2DCD5D39806@POCZTOWIEC>
A very interesting post, too bad nobody from Google bothered to give an
exhaustive reply.  Just a couple of thoughts below.

I think the problem workers are trying to solve is quite practical.  It is
not about processing power (desktop applications rarely use threads for
that) and it is not about using all computing resources available.  Using
workers makes sense even if the browser is allowed to use only one CPU.  In
absence of an existing implementation, developers try to get a similar
functionality with setTimeout (requires stackless code) and hidden windows.
The current specification is an attempt to make it cleaner and more robust.

Problem statement: the browser does not respond when it runs script code; it
does not even update the content area so it is not possible to indicate
progress.  Some useful scripts can work for a long time, either because they
are waiting for data (directly or by periodically examining the document) or
they are computationally intensive (a much rarer phenomenon, but it still
can happen in interactive scientific publications, e.g. plotting a graph
with parameters that the user can adjust, or interactive fractals).  

Aside: Scientists do not call for threads in HTML because they are hardly
acquainted with HTML, even less with its bleeding edge.  However, things may
change when they see the tool is right there and easy to use.  Admittedly,
Java can be used for the purpose, but it has the didactical disadvantage
that Java is a compiled language and tweaking anything would require JDK.
Besides, Java applets do not run everywhere: they do not run in 64-bit
Firefox for Linux (unless they are very old).

The question about native threads in JavaScript would be much better asked
in a JavaScript forum.  Workers are an external mechanism provided by the
host, not by the interpreter.

If a Web browser, being a desktop application, uses all processing resources
from the operating system, either it is the operating system that is at
fault because it should not have allowed this or the application uses a
driver or a service in an unsupported way, which probably means the driver
or the service in question is to blame.  I do not think leaving one CPU free
would help much in this case because there is no guarantee the system
process would use it anyway (it could end up being used by something else).

Chris

 

  _____  

From: whatwg-bounces@lists.whatwg.org
[mailto:whatwg-bounces at lists.whatwg.org] On Behalf Of Shannon
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:50 PM
To: WHAT working group
Subject: [whatwg] WebWorker questions

 

A few questions and thoughts on the WebWorkers proposal:

Is it wise to give a web application more processing power than a single CPU
core (or HT thread) can provide? What stops a web page hogging ALL cores
(deliberately or not) and leaving no resources for the UI mouse or key
actions required to close the page? (This is not a contrived example, I have
seen both Internet Explorer on Win32 and Flash on Linux consume 100% CPU on
several occasions). I know it's a "vendor issue" but should the spec at
least recommend UAs leave the last CPU/core free for OS tasks?

Can anybody point me to an existing Javascript-based web service that needs
more client processing power than a single P4 core?

Shouldn't an application that requires so much grunt really be written in
Java or C as an applet, plug-in or standalone application? 

If an application did require that much computation isn't it also likely to
need a more efficient inter-"thread" messaging protocol than passing Unicode
strings through MessagePorts? At the very least wouldn't it usually require
the passing of binary data, complex objects or arrays between workers
without the additional overhead of a string encode/decode?




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