- From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
- Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:30:01 +0000 (UTC)
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004, Matthew Thomas wrote: > > > > > > > > The problem is in the case where you _don't_ want it visible in > > > > downlevel UAs. > > > > > > In which case you can use CSS to hide it. > > > > CSS can be disabled. Or not supported at all. It generally is not a > > solution to legacy fallback. > > Er, really? So in HTML5, what do you propose will be the recommended way > of making these controls invisible in downlevel UAs? > > * <output> Displaying the contents of <output> is the fallback behaviour we want. > * <button> New <button> types will fallback to submit buttons (in conformant UAs) which is what we want, since it allows authors to implement the behaviour on the server side, as in this demo: http://www.whatwg.org/demos/repeat-01/ > * <select> > * <textarea> Not sure what you are referring to here, these aren't new in HTML5. > I don't see any way of hiding them in either HTML4 or WF2. If the answer > is "without CSS, you can't", why shouldn't that be true for <menu> as > well? With <menu> you can chose if you want the fallback behaviour to be "show something" or "show nothing", since both use cases make sense. > I appreciate that CSS isn't an ideal degradation mechanism, but then > making something invisible is an odd sort of degradation for an > interactive element to begin with. Not if that element wouldn't do anything useful anyway. For example, you wouldn't want a context menu to degrade to something visible, you would just not have the context menu feature. > > > Why on earth would you want to hide a menu? It's a menu. If none of > > > its items apply to the current context, a menu should appear > > > inactive, not hidden. Dynamically hiding and showing entire menus > > > would make the interface unnecessarily unstable. > > > > We're talking about the menu part of a menu bar here, not the menu bar > > itself. > > Ahh, I think I see the problem: I think you may have misread my > proposal. <menutitle> is part of the <menu>. > > <menu id="fm"> > <menutitle>File</menutitle> > <itemgroup> > <li command="NewRecord">New</li> > <li command="OpenRecord">Open…</li> > </itemgroup> > <itemgroup> > <li command="ExportRecord">Export as Text</li> > <li command="RenameRecord">Rename…</li> > <li command="DeleteRecord">Delete</li> > </itemgroup> > <li command="SaveAndClose">Close</li> > </menu> No, I had understood that. I don't see how my reaction was wrong. The problem with the above is that you want to hide the <menu> while it isn't shown. If the <menutitle> is a child, then it will be hidden too. -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Received on Wednesday, 25 August 2004 16:30:01 UTC