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Re[3]: Some comments

From: Futomi Hatano <futomi.hatano@newphoria.co.jp>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 11:03:46 +0900
To: public-websignage@w3.org
Cc: franck.dupin@innes.fr
Message-Id: <20130523110346.F7F3.17D6BAFB@newphoria.co.jp>
Hi all,

I updated the doc as a result of the discussion in this thread.
http://futomi.github.io/Web-based_Signage_Player_Core_Profile/

* Delete the phrase mentioned abut PDF from "Single image"
* Replace the term "content viewport" with "application viewport"

You can see the changes in detail here.
https://github.com/futomi/Web-based_Signage_Player_Core_Profile/commit/fdf8e989068fdec4460da218de9d03684282d909

Besides, I added "Scheduling Profile" as a planned profile on the wiki.
http://www.w3.org/community/websignage/wiki/Main_Page#Profiles_for_Web-based_Signage_Player

Cheers,
Futomi


On Thu, 23 May 2013 09:50:11 +0900
Futomi Hatano <futomi.hatano@newphoria.co.jp> wrote:

> Hi Franck,
> 
> > 7 Scene content types
> > 
> > >I know PDF is *not" identical to an image file.
> > >But in terms of HTML, PDF is conceptually similar to an image file
> > >because the img element in a HTML document is allowed to
> > >embed an PDF file in itself.
> > 
> > I am not agree. PDF must be see like a document and not like an elementary media (image or video).
> > PDF can contain jpeg, font, signature, stamp, mp3, forms like a HTML page.
> > For example, our player (Playzilla) treat PDF like a HTML page with “PDF.JS” inside a iframe.
> 
> Good point. It makes sense.
> Maybe, we see PDF in a different way.
> You see it in terms of its structure.
> I see it in terms of authoring.
> (Authors can treat the both in a same way using the img element)
> Anyway, it seems to be confusing if PDF is put in "Single image".
> 
> The following phrase seems to be deleted from "Single image".
> [[
> Players may support more sophisticated formats, such as PDF. [PDF]
> ]]
> 
> Cheers,
> Futomi
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 22 May 2013 22:32:32 +0200
> "Franck Dupin" <franck.dupin@innes.fr> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Futomi,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > My comments about your comments :
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 6 Regions
> > 
> > …
> > 
> > sorry, I did not read
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 7 Scene content types
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > >I know PDF is *not" identical to an image file.
> > 
> > >But in terms of HTML, PDF is conceptually similar to an image file
> > 
> > >because the img element in a HTML document is allowed to
> > 
> > >embed an PDF file in itself.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I am not agree. PDF must be see like a document and not like an elementary media (image or video).
> > 
> > PDF can contain jpeg, font, signature, stamp, mp3, forms like a HTML page.
> > 
> > For example, our player (Playzilla) treat PDF like a HTML page with “PDF.JS” inside a iframe.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > >As you mentioned, PDF have the slideshow mode. On the other hand,
> > 
> > >GIF can have similar capability using animations (i.e. animation GIF).
> > 
> > >I think that having the slideshow mode is not a matter in this context.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Why not, but GIF is an elementary media not a document.
> > 
> > W3C describes very well the kinds compound documents CDF by inclusion (pdf, epub, ms-powerpoint,..) and CDF by reference (HTML, RSS feeds,…)
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > >The document is "Core Profile".
> > 
> > >As described in the section "Abstract",
> > 
> > >it defines just requisite minimum for web-based signage.
> > 
> > >Most of existing signs don't need all features.
> > 
> > >We can define other features as other profiles.
> > 
> > >Actually, this BG has listed some profiles in the wiki.
> > 
> > > <http://www.w3.org/community/websignage/wiki/Main_Page#Profiles_for_Web-based_Signage_Player> http://www.w3.org/community/websignage/wiki/Main_Page#Profiles_for_Web-based_Signage_Player
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Right.
> > 
> > But my point of view is that it is questionable to support “PDF format” in the core profile.
> > 
> > why not consider it in a more complete profile?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > > 8 Playlist
> > 
> > >…But the "Core Profile" doesn't treat media files such as video, audio.
> > 
> > >Video and audio are planed to be defined in the "Basic Media Profile"
> > 
> > Right.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > > 9 Scheduling
> > 
> > > >Why don’t advice full features of  iso8601
> > 
> > >> ( <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601) :
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > >Though the documents we are planning don't define the format,
> > 
> > >It seems to be really helplul. I didn't know it.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > > >Repeated Date/Time Events with some examples :
> > 
> > > >On the top of every hour starting 9AM on January 1st, 2010
> > 
> > > >R/2010-01-01T09:00/PT1H
> > 
> > > >On midnight of each of the first 6 Mondays in the year 2010
> > 
> > > >R6/2010-01-01+w1/P1W
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > >It seems to be useful.
> > 
> > >How about we plan to make "Scheduling Profile" or 
> > 
> > >"Scheduling Extension"?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Scheduling Profile : Indeed it would be a good idea
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Sincerely,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Franck Dupin
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Description : logo-innes
> > 
> > ZAC Atalante champeaux
> > 
> > 5A rue Pierre Joseph Colin
> > 
> > 35000 RENNES - FRANCE
> > 
> > Tel: +33 (0)2 23 20 01 62 / Fax: +33 (0)2 23 20 22 59 / http://www.innes.pro
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Futomi Hatano [mailto:futomi.hatano@newphoria.co.jp] 
> > Envoyé : mercredi 22 mai 2013 03:22
> > À : franck.dupin@innes.fr
> > Cc : public-websignage@w3.org
> > Objet : Re: Some comments
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Hi Franck,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Thanks for your helpful comments.
> > 
> > Responses inline below.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > On Tue, 21 May 2013 23:07:07 +0200
> > 
> > "Franck Dupin" < <mailto:franck.dupin@innes.fr> franck.dupin@innes.fr> wrote:
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > > Hi Futomi.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > Thanks a lot for your work about web signage player.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > I have some comments about your document proposal
> > 
> > > ( <http://futomi.github.io/Web-based_Signage_Player_Core_Profile/> http://futomi.github.io/Web-based_Signage_Player_Core_Profile/) :
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 4. Concept of viewport
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > “The display viewport is the area in which the display can show something.
> > 
> > > The content viewport is the area in which an application shows 
> > 
> > > web-based signage contents. The display viewport and the content 
> > 
> > > viewport are not necessarily identical.”
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > >I’m bored with your notion of “content viewport”. in fact, you 
> > 
> > > >describe
> > 
> > > here an “application viewport”. “application viewport” being composed 
> > 
> > > of a region(s), of a scene, of a content like your illustration
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > You are right.
> > 
> > The term "content viewport" is likely to be confusing.
> > 
> > The term "application viewport" seems to be better.
> > 
> > I'll modify it soon.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > > 6 Regions
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > “Background color
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > This color will be seen at areas where the contents do not exist or 
> > 
> > > the contents are transparent. This color is specified in a CSS color.
> > 
> > > [CSSCOLOR]”
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > >You talk about background color for regions but can we consider 
> > 
> > > >background
> > 
> > > color  for content viewport ( and display viewport) ?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Yes.
> > 
> > This document has already included the background color for both of the content viewport (a.k.a. application viewport) and the display viewport.
> > 
> > See the section "5 Viewport properties".
> > 
> >  <http://futomi.github.io/Web-based_Signage_Player_Core_Profile/#viewport_properties> http://futomi.github.io/Web-based_Signage_Player_Core_Profile/#viewport_properties
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > > 7 Scene content types
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > “Conformant players of this profile must support 3 types of contents as a
> > 
> > > scene.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > Single image
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > Players must render an image file as a scene. Players must support PNG, GIF
> > 
> > > (including animation gif), and JPEG as an image format at least. An image
> > 
> > > file is rendered using the img element or the object element specified in
> > 
> > > HTML5. [PNG] [GIF] [JPEG] [HTML5]
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > Players must support DataURLs for images. [RFC2397]
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > Players may support more sophisticated formats, such as PDF. [PDF] “
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > >I think it is an error to consider pdf document like single image. Pdf is a
> > 
> > > CDFi (Compount Document Format by Inclusion – see
> > 
> > >  <http://www.w3.org/2004/CDF/> http://www.w3.org/2004/CDF/) and specifically “paged document” with
> > 
> > > slideshow mode
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I know PDF is *not" identical to an image file.
> > 
> > But in terms of HTML, PDF is conceptually similar to an image file
> > 
> > because the img element in a HTML document is allowed to
> > 
> > embed an PDF file in itself.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > As you mentioned, PDF have the slideshow mode. On the other hand,
> > 
> > GIF can have similar capability using animations (i.e. animation GIF).
> > 
> > I think that having the slideshow mode is not a matter 
> > 
> > in this context.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > > >A signage player should play : 
> > 
> > > >Image raster (png, gif, jpeg)
> > 
> > > >Vector (svg, svg+smil, flash)
> > 
> > > >Video (mp4, webm)
> > 
> > > >HTML5 based page (iframe)
> > 
> > > >Paged document like pdf, e-pub,  or ms-powerpoint / open office documents
> > 
> > > ( <http://webodf.org> http://webodf.org )
> > 
> > > >RSS / Ticker / Why not Timed Text ( <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/ or
> > 
> > >  <http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/> http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/ )  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > The document is "Core Profile".
> > 
> > As described in the section "Abstract",
> > 
> > it defines just requisite minimum for web-based signage.
> > 
> > Most of existing signs don't need all features.
> > 
> > We can define other features as other profiles.
> > 
> > Actually, this BG has listed some profiles in the wiki.
> > 
> >  <http://www.w3.org/community/websignage/wiki/Main_Page#Profiles_for_Web-based_Signage_Player> http://www.w3.org/community/websignage/wiki/Main_Page#Profiles_for_Web-based_Signage_Player
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > What we should discuss now is what features should be
> > 
> > included in the Core Profile or not.
> > 
> > I don't want the Core Profile to be overengineer.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > > 8 Playlist
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > “…Each scene must have the duration. If the duration isn't specified,
> > 
> > > application is encouraged to adapt the default duration (for example,
> > 
> > > 60seconds).”
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > >Sequence can have indefinite duration because intrinsic media duration
> > 
> > > (video or rss after unknown flow of items)…
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Right.
> > 
> > But the "Core Profile" doesn't treat media files such as video, audio.
> > 
> > Video and audio are planed to be defined in the "Basic Media Profile"
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > > 9 Scheduling
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > >Why don’t advice full features of  iso8601
> > 
> > > ( <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601) :
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Though the documents we are planning don't define the format,
> > 
> > It seems to be really helplul. I didn't know it.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > > >Repeated Date/Time Events with some examples :
> > 
> > > >On the top of every hour starting 9AM on January 1st, 2010
> > 
> > > >R/2010-01-01T09:00/PT1H
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > >On midnight of each of the first 6 Mondays in the year 2010
> > 
> > > >R6/2010-01-01+w1/P1W
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > It seems to be useful.
> > 
> > How about we plan to make "Scheduling Profile" or 
> > 
> > "Scheduling Extension"?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Futomi
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Newphoria Corporation
> > 
> > Chief Technology Officer
> > 
> > Futomi Hatano
> > 
> > --
> > 
> >  <mailto:futomi.hatano@newphoria.co.jp> futomi.hatano@newphoria.co.jp
> > 
> >  <http://www.newphoria.co.jp/> http://www.newphoria.co.jp/
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 株式会社ニューフォリア
> 取締役 最高技術責任者
> 羽田野 太巳 (はたの ふとみ)
> futomi.hatano@newphoria.co.jp
> http://www.newphoria.co.jp/
> 

-- 
株式会社ニューフォリア
取締役 最高技術責任者
羽田野 太巳 (はたの ふとみ)
futomi.hatano@newphoria.co.jp
http://www.newphoria.co.jp/
Received on Thursday, 23 May 2013 02:04:09 UTC

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