Re: Call for Consensus (CfC): Publish webrtc-stats as updated Candidate Recommendation

We know what we need to do and it's just a matter of doing it, it's a
matter of days *if* it's being worked on. The problem is finding the time
to work on it.

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 8:16 PM Bernard Aboba <Bernard.Aboba@microsoft.com>
wrote:

> If it is a matter of weeks, I would agree. But if it requires review and
> discussion at TPAC (and subsequent editing) so that it is more like 3+
> months then maybe not.
>
> Henrik - what do you think?
>
> On Jul 16, 2019, at 11:12 AM, Stefan Håkansson LK <
> stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com> wrote:
>
> I’m not heavily involved in this anymore. But to me it looks like moving
> the (per-layer) stats to the correct place, and decide & write up what to
> do with those meaningless to aggregate should be a matter of weeks. Perhaps
> it would be better to do that before issuing a new CR (since the move would
> anyway happen soon-ish I presume, and then a CR issued now would be
> obsolete even though being relatively fresh). My 5 cents.
>
>
>
> *From: *Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 16 July 2019 at 20:00
> *To: *Henrik Boström <hbos@google.com>, Bernard Aboba <
> Bernard.Aboba@microsoft.com>
> *Cc: *Stefan LK <stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com>, "public-webrtc@w3.org"
> <public-webrtc@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: Call for Consensus (CfC): Publish webrtc-stats as updated
> Candidate Recommendation
>
>
>
> When we (the chairs) discussed issuing a renewed CR, it was explicitly
> clear that this is not stable enough for PR yet.
>
> We'll likely be issuing another CR before asking for PR.
>
>
>
> When we discussed the per-layer stats, I felt that there was value in
> having the (current) aggregated stats, and augumenting them with
>
> per-outbound-rtp stats; the exception is those that are really meaningless
> to aggregate, such as framerate and width/height; those either need to be
> deprecated (moved to the obsolete section) at the per-sender level or need
> to be declared as "identical to the highest level sent".
>
>
>
> On 7/16/19 6:08 PM, Henrik Boström wrote:
>
> OK, thanks for the clarification. The current state of the spec is in a
> better state than the currently published version though.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:35 PM Bernard Aboba <Bernard.Aboba@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
>
> Henrik said:
>
>
>
> "several metrics are in the wrong place, i.e. to adequately support
> simulcast some of them need to be moved around so that they can be
> expressed on a per-layer (per outbound-rtp) rather than per-sender (track)
> basis."
>
>
>
> [BA] Candidate Recommendation is supposed to denote "ready for
> implementation". If we have metrics in the wrong place, wouldn't it be
> better to move them around now so that when we put out the CR, we can then
> say "this is how you support stats for simulcast" and move forward on
> implementation?
>
>
>
> Stefan said:
>
>
>
> "But should the “CR blocker” labels be changed to “PR blocker”? "
>
>
>
> [BA]  The metric move issue above does indeed seem like a "CR blocker".
>  If there's nothing else that would preclude an implementation push,
> perhaps we can just remove the "CR blocker" label on other issues that
> aren't critical for issuing a CR.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Henrik Boström <hbos@google.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2019 1:31 AM
> *To:* Stefan Håkansson LK <stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com>
> *Cc:* Bernard Aboba <Bernard.Aboba@microsoft.com>; Harald Alvestrand <
> harald@alvestrand.no>; public-webrtc@w3.org <public-webrtc@w3.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Call for Consensus (CfC): Publish webrtc-stats as updated
> Candidate Recommendation
>
>
>
> I don't know the formal differences between CR and PR. But in my mind, the
> stats are in a really good shape - the desired metrics for a WebRTC 1.0
> implementation are there, and some - but several metrics are in the wrong
> place, i.e. to adequately support simulcast some of them need to be moved
> around so that they can be expressed on a per-layer (per outbound-rtp)
> rather than per-sender (track) basis.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 10:17 AM Stefan Håkansson LK <
> stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com> wrote:
>
> I do too. But should the “CR blocker” labels be changed to “PR blocker”?
> The current label seems to serve no purpose if we spin a new CR without
> resolving the issues.
>
>
>
> *From: *Henrik Boström <hbos@google.com>
> *Date: *Monday, 15 July 2019 at 13:24
> *To: *Bernard Aboba <Bernard.Aboba@microsoft.com>
> *Cc: *Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>, "public-webrtc@w3.org" <
> public-webrtc@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: Call for Consensus (CfC): Publish webrtc-stats as updated
> Candidate Recommendation
> *Resent-From: *"public-webrtc@w3.org" <public-webrtc@w3.org>
> *Resent-Date: *Monday, 15 July 2019 at 13:23
>
>
>
> I support publishing the current webrtc-stats as CR
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 8:29 PM Bernard Aboba <Bernard.Aboba@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
>
> The respec errors in Webrtc-Stats are now fixed:
>
> https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw3c.github.io%2Fwebrtc-stats%2F&data=02%7C01%7CBernard.Aboba%40microsoft.com%7Cfc3461a0b9ff416f194108d70a191fa6%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636988975338841511&sdata=xNZ0rxiWEGPS5dniOqYF6Qaq6CO36hWlMJ5I%2BUBRmII%3D&reserved=0>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Bernard Aboba <Bernard.Aboba@microsoft.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 11, 2019 8:09 AM
> *To:* Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>; public-webrtc@w3.org <
> public-webrtc@w3.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Call for Consensus (CfC): Publish webrtc-stats as updated
> Candidate Recommendation
>
>
>
> The Editor's draft
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw3c.github.io%2Fwebrtc-stats%2F&data=02%7C01%7CBernard.Aboba%40microsoft.com%7Cfc3461a0b9ff416f194108d70a191fa6%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636988975338841511&sdata=xNZ0rxiWEGPS5dniOqYF6Qaq6CO36hWlMJ5I%2BUBRmII%3D&reserved=0> shows
> 11 respec errors, and the Issues list
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwebrtc-stats%2Fissues&data=02%7C01%7CBernard.Aboba%40microsoft.com%7Cfc3461a0b9ff416f194108d70a191fa6%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636988975338851508&sdata=ylaiKag51vWMt4ANDEo3igqB9STorXR6If5IobddFDE%3D&reserved=0>
> shows 8 unresolved Issues with the "CR blocker" label.
>
>
>
> So perhaps a little more work is needed before a CR can be published.
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 10, 2019 7:52 AM
> *To:* public-webrtc@w3.org <public-webrtc@w3.org>
> *Subject:* Call for Consensus (CfC): Publish webrtc-stats as updated
> Candidate Recommendation
>
>
>
> Our present webrtc-stats, published as
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fwebrtc-stats%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7CBernard.Aboba%40microsoft.com%7C0d5b18e330f34e01f29c08d705467791%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636983672521933649&amp;sdata=efffKD9Wp7Rd0D9Vyxvb5jAHeY0xiwBINk1xxdE6WQY%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fwebrtc-stats%2F&data=02%7C01%7CBernard.Aboba%40microsoft.com%7Cfc3461a0b9ff416f194108d70a191fa6%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636988975338851508&sdata=CwTb8y9sxtr7xPoFCPjkpsu8mVfjfJYemnoAgZS%2BfHo%3D&reserved=0>,
> is almost exactly 1 year old.
>
> The spec has evolved significantly over the course of a year; having this
> old version
> around just confuses things.
>
> The spec is still evolving, and needs some tidying, but the chairs feel
> that it is better to emit this one
> as Candidate Recommendation now than to wait for stability to increase.
> Thus:
>
> This is a Call for Consensus to push the editors' draft,
>
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw3c.github.io%2Fwebrtc-stats%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7CBernard.Aboba%40microsoft.com%7C0d5b18e330f34e01f29c08d705467791%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636983672521933649&amp;sdata=fcxkyzDASKpqrkZMrozRSh8HxSLy34wVW8z3BSSO6xk%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw3c.github.io%2Fwebrtc-stats%2F&data=02%7C01%7CBernard.Aboba%40microsoft.com%7Cfc3461a0b9ff416f194108d70a191fa6%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636988975338861504&sdata=Lw1IJFoPwknCCK9jezaOdAdTi8hnZ3zULc0q6AdkgIM%3D&reserved=0>,
> out as a new version of our
> Candidate Recommendation.
>
> The CfC will last for one week, and end on Wednesday, July 17, at 16:00 UTC
>
> In response, please state one of the following:
>
> - I support publishing the current webrtc-stats as CR
>
> - I object to publishing the current webrtc-stats as CR, due to
> issues filed in open bug <#number>.
>
> Harald, for the chairs
>
> --
> Surveillance is pervasive. Go Dark.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Surveillance is pervasive. Go Dark.
>
>