- From: Jan-Ivar Bruaroey <jib@mozilla.com>
- Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 23:54:25 -0500
- To: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>, public-webrtc@w3.org
On 2/11/19 9:38 AM, Harald Alvestrand wrote: > On 02/11/2019 07:52 AM, youenn fablet wrote: >>> On Feb 10, 2019, at 7:47 AM, Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> wrote: >>> >>> Den 07.02.2019 19:05, skrev youenn fablet: >>>> As shown >>>> by https://www.chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/1119, enumerateDevices >>>> is probably used for fingerprinting purposes. >>> However, I'm not sure the data actually supports this. >>> I looked at the same data through another lens, and that showed the >>> usage to be almost flat over the last 3 months (somehow the 1-year graph >>> failed to show). >>> >>> It's possible that the jumps in the top graph indicate when the counter >>> was rolled out, not when the feature started to be used. >>> >>> The second graph shows an usage pattern that is falling, not rising - >>> again, it does not correlate with the graph above. >>> >>> It would be great to have some verification that the usage of >>> enumerateDevices is indeed unrelated to the page potentially wanting to >>> use those devices. >> From my reading of https://www.chromestatus.com, enumerateDevices is used on 1.8% of the pages while getUserMedia is used on less than 0.01% of the pages. >> We also have internal evidence that web sites that are never calling getUserMedia are calling enumerateDevices. >> My suspicion is that they are doing so to fingerprint users. > So is mine. However, if we have decided that a certain amount of leakage > is acceptable, that means that we have to accept it when it's being used > for fingerprinting - the fact that it's being used isn't, per se, an > indication that our call was wrong. > > If we decide that the leakage is not acceptable, we have to change it. > > (note - there's evidence that those who track users continue to leave > stuff in their code even if it's not effective in returning a > fingerprint. It's cheaper to collect everything than to remove what > doesn't work any more.) > > Note - so far we've been 3 people on this thread. I'd like to hear other > voices. I'd like to throw Mozilla's support behind this. Firefox already implements a privacy.resistFingerprinting pref to limit enumerateDevices() exposure as part of the TOR project [1]. Concerned by the data Youenn mentions, we are looking to enable these protections for more of our users [2], ideally without sacrificing device selection after getUserMedia grant. Clarifications from the spec on how to do this compatibly would be welcome. 5 years since this was designed, I think we all have more information on how web sites use media capture and WebRTC. We've also seen how fingerprinting libraries make their way into even legitimate sites. Given this, I think it's fair to ask for examples of actual sites that stand to break from the limitations Youenn is proposing. [1] https://www.ghacks.net/2018/03/01/a-history-of-fingerprinting-protection-in-firefox/ [2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1528042 .: Jan-Ivar :.
Received on Wednesday, 27 February 2019 04:54:48 UTC