Summary of 12/6/12 content TF call

Hi, everyone:

Here's a summary of the Content Task Force meeting we had last week. Let me
know of any edits. Otherwise, this is what I'll report to the general
meeting tomorrow.

These notes are also posted on the Content Meeting page
<http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Content_Meetings>
(http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Content_Meetings).

Regards.

Julee

==Meeting summary==
===Topics discussed===
* We discussed the status on the project/program manager for the content
tasks. Alex said he realized that the term "project manager" might have
caused some confusion and may have implied too big a scope. Really, it's
more about someone who just follows through on Action items. We're
continuing to discuss this with those who have volunteered for the role.
* We discussed categorizing the features as stable, proprietary,
experimental, and so on.We do have a page that calls out the different
statuses: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Property:Standardization_Status.
We need to further discuss what are the appropriate categories for WPD. The
http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Pillars page says that we should aim to
be useful documentation for the web as it is, so categories such as
"proprietary" are important, because we might document something that's
useful but has legal restrictions. If there's something TOTALLY proprietary,
we had talked about having that in a special vendor section as well
* We discussed the example code style bug
[https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20227|Bug 20227], but
decided to table it for a couple of weeks, because Lea's dabbler code
highlighting might land next Friday. (Here's what we have so far:
http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Manual_Of_Style/Sample_best_practices)
* Topic hierarchy page and architecture page is one place where people go to
figure out where things go and where they will be. It needs updating. Julee
volunteered to do this. We predicted that questions will probably arise from
this task.
* We want to ask each week: Anything blocking you from creating great
content? This week, it's the session bug. Ryan has installed the newest
version of mediawiki. There are a few conflicts, he's working to resolve
those before deploying.
* We called out the user experience bugs for this task force to review,
especially to confirm designs are discoverable, accessible, and follows
content architecture:
** https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20180 (site organization)
** https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20250 (global nav)
** https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19386 (links from main)
* This brought up another topic:
* Use Meta bugs on bugzilla are big and fuzzy. Plans, proposals, and scratch
pad work should be kept as subpages:
http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Plans. Not in Bugzilla, and not in
another site, such as GitHub. They keep the substantive discussion/plans in
WPD:Plans/FOO, and then as actionable sub-items pop out, we file them as
bugs that the meta bug depends on.
* Garbee mentioned that one of the things with using Bug genie is we can
edit comments.  So we could actually use that as our place to put things
like my Beginner's Guide outline as a comment, then just edit that comment
when we update things.  Further centralizing some creation there if we 1) Go
with Bug Genie and 2) decide to use it that way. So an issue is just opened
for it to be created, then the outline is one of the comments.
* When new templates appear, such as the listing pages that were sent out
for review this week, call it out in terms of content, reviewing it to make
sure they make sense from content perspective.
* We talked about the coming DocSprint at Google. Several folks are going.
Several suggestions regarding promoting, gathering like-skilled folks
together via tweeting and other social channels. Also several folks are
going to try to get editors' feedback about their experience of the site.
* We talked about the template corp and giving access to those who want to
edit templates. But not on a one-off basis, more like giving group access.

===Decisions===
* Until we have a project management system in place, plans, proposals, and
scratch pad work should be kept as subpages:
http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Plans. Not in Bugzilla, and not in
another site, such as GitHub.

===Action items===
* Julee to find out how to add a meeting bot to the Content TF Meeting.
* Julee to file a bug about the design of reference pages with a
non-standard standardization status.
* Eliot to update bug 20227 with pointer to the style guide he wrote
* Garbee to send out his awesome task organization plan
* Scott and Peter to explore social media channels about next week's
docsprint
Proposed next discussion topics

From:  Alex Komoroske <komoroske@google.com>
Date:  Thursday, December 6, 2012 3:30 PM
To:  "public-webplatform@w3.org" <public-webplatform@w3.org>
Subject:  Notes from today's content TF call

Here are the raw notes (copied from my IRC log) of the notes from
today:julee: Agenda 2012-12-06
[07:03am] julee: Roll call
[07:03am] julee: Review of open action items
[07:03am] jkomoros: Š scribe: jkomoros
[07:03am] julee: Triage of new content architecture issues
[07:03am] julee: Identifying stable vs. proprietary and experimental
features
[07:03am] julee: Style guide for example code [20227]
[07:03am] julee: Topic hierarchy needs updating
[07:03am] julee: Anything blocking you from creating great content?
[07:03am] jswisher joined the chat room.
[07:03am] julee: [bug of site UX]
[07:03am] julee: Please review, especially in terms of content
discoverability
[07:03am] julee: [on adding a menu]
[07:03am] julee: [for fixing top-level buckets]
[07:03am] julee: New templates this week: listing pages
[07:03am] julee: 12/12/12 DocSprint?
[07:03am] julee: Any content-specific focus?
[07:03am] julee: Going? Going to be on IRC?
[07:03am] julee: [bugs]: Content bugs in bugzilla need your input and
resolution.
[07:04am] julee: Present
[07:04am] jkomoros: present
[07:04am] Eliot: present
[07:04am] shepazu: Present
[07:04am] jrunrandy: Presents
[07:04am] jswisher: present!
[07:04am] € shepazu presents!
[07:05am] julee: Action items from last week:
[07:05am] Eliot: Not this week, Doug
[07:05am] julee: chrismills to set up a Doodle poll for next meeting times.
[07:05am] julee: garbee to write guidelines on creating content bugs.
[07:05am] julee: (was julee, is now) Garbee to write down (in bug creation
guidelines) what issues go where (Bugzilla vs. WPD:Task_Roadmap,
WPD:Most_Wanted_Tasks, Special:WantedPages, WPD:Getting_Started, etc.)
[07:05am] julee: Alex to write up a description of the project manager's
role.
[07:05am] julee: All: review this summary to ensure accuracy.
[07:05am] jkomoros: ACTION: Julee to find someone to Get a logging bot
running in #webplatform-site
[07:05am] jkomoros: topic: Review last week's action items
[07:06am] jkomoros: julee: Chris did the doodle. Garbee is working on
content guidelines for bugs. YOu'll see many come through with a bracketed
word in the subject.
[07:06am] € mdel can't phone in, but is following along
[07:07am] jkomoros: Š garbed also wanted to write down which editorial tasks
go where. Filed a bug for that.
[07:07am] jkomoros: Š and I added to it. IF an editor wants to give help,
there are like 22 pages that can provide that information. Some are
outdated. We did an inventory of those pages. Garbee has it on his plate to
consolidate that.
[07:08am] jkomoros: Š alex wrote up the project manager role requirements
[07:08am] jkomoros: jkomoros: I realize the term "project manager" might
have implied too big a scope; more about someone who just follows through on
Action items
[07:08am] jkomoros: julee: We use "program manager" for that at Adobe
[07:09am] jkomoros: Š we have some people who are interested in that role,
in active talks.
[07:09am] julee: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Content_Meetings
[07:09am] jkomoros: Š last action was for everyone to review the summary and
make sure it's accurate. I'll basically just be making a big long list. Main
heading is agenda. But there's a meeting summary, action items, decisions,
proposed next steps for each meeting.
[07:10am] jkomoros: Š after the meeting I'll e-mail it out; otherwise that's
the summary I'll deliver at the general meetings
[07:10am] jkomoros: Š some of the topics today we shouldn't discuss without
Chris/Garbee
[07:10am] jkomoros: Topic: Triage of new content architecture issues
[07:11am] jkomoros: julee: On the threads there's been a discussion of
identifying features as stable/proprietary/experimental.
[07:11am] shepazu: q+
[07:11am] jkomoros: Š I want people to ensure they're looking at it
[07:11am] jkomoros: jkomoros: This is a tough issue, worth its own thread.
[07:12am] jkomoros: shepazu: Just FYI, on W3C's IRC channel we have a bot to
keep track of the speaker queue
[07:12am] jkomoros: Š when Mike posted that post, it made it clear to me
that we should have a page to talk about the statuses, in terms of what it
means for something to be considered stable, etc.
[07:12am] jkomoros: Š we can actually even link to that page from the
standardization flag about what it means.
[07:13am] Eliot: +1 to Doug's recommendations
[07:13am] julee: +1
[07:13am] jkomoros:
http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Property:Standardization_Status
[07:13am] jkomoros: jkomoros: Like that idea. Should probably discuss what
the statuses ARE first.
[07:14am] jkomoros: julee: For most readers, I want it Stable to be default;
if it's not stable, it should be called out in a significant way.
[07:14am] jkomoros: Š and if it's proprietary, to call it out in a different
way
[07:15am] shepazu: q+
[07:16am] jkomoros: jkomoros: The
http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Pillars page says that we should aim to
be useful documentation for the web as it is.
[07:16am] jkomoros: Š but a better design for these pages is a great idea
[07:17am] jkomoros: ACTION: Julee to file a bug about the design of
reference pages with a non-standard standardization status.
[07:17am] jkomoros: shepazu: If there's something TOTALLY proprietary, we
had talked about having that in a special vendor section as well
[07:17am] Eliot: Lots of reasons. Microsoft pinned sites, Facebook, Google
maps....
[07:18am] jkomoros: Topic: Style Guide for Example code
[07:18am] julee: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20227
[07:19am] jkomoros: Eliot: I wrote one.  It might be different than what
we're looking for
[07:20am] jkomoros: jkomoros: All I remember is that we talked about it
after the announcement, generally decided to not CREATE one, but to use an
existing one.
[07:20am] jkomoros: shepazu: FYI, Lea's dabbler code highlighting she
estimates will land next Friday
[07:21am] jkomoros: julee: Should we table it for two weeks?
[07:21am] jkomoros: shepazu: That will effectively mean tabling it until the
new year
[07:21am] jkomoros: Topic: Topic Hierarchy Page
[07:22am] jkomoros: julee: I think this is one place where this and the
architecture page are where people go to figure out where things go and
where they will be.
[07:22am] jkomoros: Š I think it needs to be updated.
[07:22am] jkomoros: Š I was going to volunteer to update it, which will
probably uncover some questions
[07:23am] jkomoros: Action: Julee to update the topic hierarchy and
architecture page to bring them up to date, flush out other issues
[07:23am] jkomoros: jkomoros: You should talk to NotTomato about listing all
sub pages
[07:24am] shepazu: agenda+ alex to work with tomato on template corps
[07:24am] jkomoros: julee: The reason I bring this up is that I think it's a
blocking issue. People should feel free to bring attention to the issues
that are preventing contributors from moving forward.
[07:24am] jkomoros: Topic: Anything blocking you from creating great
content?
[07:24am] jkomoros: shepazu: I think the session bug is blocking a lot of
people, but we're making progress.
[07:25am] jkomoros: Š ryan has installed the newest version of mediawiki .
There are a few conflicts, he's working to resolve those before deploying.
[07:26am] jkomoros: ACTION: Eliot to update bug 20227 with pointer to the
style guide he wrote
[07:26am] jkomoros: topic: Site User Experience Bug
[07:26am] jkomoros: julee: Bug 20180
[07:26am] julee: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20180
[07:27am] jkomoros: Š a lot of stuff in here to go through and ponder. It's
all great, obviously, but we need to make sure we're all on the same page
here.
[07:27am] Eliot: Found it. It's very vague.
http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Manual_Of_Style/Sample_best_practices
[07:27am] jkomoros: julee: He also has some additional related bugs. A
global menu is one.
[07:27am] julee: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20250 global
menu bug
[07:28am] jkomoros: shepazu: I think it would be great for Tomato to follow
up about bottom menu
[07:28am] julee: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19386
another UX
[07:28am] jkomoros: Š i'm not sure if I want Chris's proposal as a top
menu--maybe a sidebar menu?
[07:29am] jkomoros: julee: I'm calling these out so people can look at them.
For this taskforce, make sure that it helps editors, that it's discoverable,
accessible, and follows content architecture
[07:30am] jkomoros: shepazu: 20180, on a meta level: this is not a bug. It's
a list of various items. I'm wondering if this is the best way to use
bugzilla
[07:30am] jkomoros: Š buzilla is best for reporting a specific issue
[07:30am] jkomoros: Š maybe this belongs on the wiki?
[07:31am] jkomoros: jkomoros: One nice thing about bugzilla is it keeps
things on a list of action items
[07:31am] jkomoros: jswisher:  I think for this case, the big bug is an
umbrella that depends on the sub, actionable bugs.
[07:32am] jkomoros: julee: I think in general we're still trying to figure
out how to keep track of things. Garbee has been a proponent of "put
everything in bugzilla until we figure it out"
[07:32am] jkomoros: Š Chris has put a lot of great stuff in accessibiliity
[07:33am] jkomoros: Š so maybe we should recommend that plans go elsewhere.
[07:33am] jkomoros: Š one of the things Garbee, Mike, and I have been doing
is to put proposed sketches of plans on GitHub. Then we're not cluttering
the main site, the "product" with scratchpad kinds of notes
[07:34am] jkomoros: jkomoros: Actually, as long as it's not in the root
namespace it's conceptually totally separate.
[07:34am] jkomoros: shepazu: We could have a different namespace.
[07:34am] jkomoros: Š the problem I have with having stuff in GitHub is it's
ONE MORE place to put stuff.
[07:35am] Garbee: Yea, we need a namespace for random little things like
that stuff which we are working on.  Also would reduce places people need to
look for stuff.
[07:35am] € Garbee is IRC only and in-and-out.
[07:35am] julee: lost the call, will call back in...
[07:35am] jkomoros: Hi Garbee!
[07:36am] jkomoros: jkomoros: One way to do it is to have a subpage in WPD
[07:36am] Garbee: jkomoros, I made you an admin on the Bug Genie demo.  So
you can play with *EVERYTHING*.
[07:37am] Garbee: One of the things with using Bug genie is we can edit
comments.  So we could actually use that as our place to put things like my
Beginner's Guide outline as a comment, then just edit that comment was we
update things.  Further centralizing some creation there if we 1) Go with
Bug Genie and 2) decide to use it that way.
[07:37am] julee: Yes!
[07:37am] mstalfoort joined the chat room.
[07:37am] Garbee: So an issue is just opened for it to be created, then the
outline is one of the comments.
[07:38am] julee: Hi, Garbee!
[07:38am] Garbee: Hey..
[07:38am] jkomoros: jkomoros: To summarize: Meta bugs on bugzilla are big
and fuzzy. They keep the substantive discussion/plans in WPD:Plans/FOO, and
then as actionable sub-items pop out, we file them as bugs that the meta bug
depends on
[07:38am] jkomoros: shepazu: I'll create the subpage right now
[07:38am] Garbee: Oh, and I *do* have the guidelines written, just need to
rip them out of another doc and clean it up then shoot it out.
[07:39am] Garbee: So my action item from the last meeting will be done in a
day or two.
[07:39am] jkomoros: ACTION: Garbee to send out his awesome task organization
plan
[07:39am] jkomoros: topic: New Templates
[07:40am] jkomoros: julee: Wanted to call it out in terms of content,
reviewing it to make sure they make sense from content perspective
[07:40am] jkomoros: jkomoros: To be clear, content folks should ABSOLUTELY
be involved in discussions on new templates
[07:40am] jkomoros: topic: Doc Sprint
[07:41am] jkomoros: jkomoros: I can't go, which bums me out. I had a great
time at the last one.
[07:41am] jkomoros: shepazu: I might try to come, but I'll have to see.
[07:42am] jkomoros: Š I'd like to learn how to run the docsprints
[07:42am] Garbee: Doc Sprint in-a-box coming soon hopefully!
[07:43am] jkomoros: shepazu: Have we considered calling out "celebrities"
who are going that people want to see?
[07:43am] Garbee: Should we use Paul like that?
[07:44am] jkomoros: @Garbee Him, and Peter Lubbers
[07:45am] jkomoros: julee: The reason I'm bringing this up here is in case
there's any work to get through content wise
[07:45am] shepazu: btw, http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Plans
[07:45am] Eliot: I will also be there, as will Millo
[07:45am] jkomoros: Š like maybe if people get on board, people can look at
HTML/CSS top pages, and give a personal review of how to improve the content
[07:45am] Garbee: jkomoros, One of my top things to do at the sprint is get
feedback from actual editors.
[07:46am] Garbee: We are sorely missing feedback.  Also I need to figure out
what we need to do to get more regular feedback from people.
[07:46am] jkomoros: ACTION: Julee to send the content review working group
idea to scott
[07:46am] julee: Garbee: +1
[07:47am] Garbee: Feedback is also something Tomato and I are working on in
our PM solution.
[07:47am] Garbee: So getting that data will help with a few things.
[07:47am] jkomoros: shepazu: If there's going to be 2 or 3 people who will
pledge to work on X. if we could have a way for them to say their area of
expertise
[07:47am] Eliot: I need to run to another meeting. Thanks, all!
[07:47am] jkomoros: Š a way to think "I'm not going to be alone on this
topic"
[07:47am] julee: Eliot: Thanks. Bye.
[07:48am] jkomoros: Š or for people to tweet that they're going and what
they're working on.
[07:48am] jkomoros: Š similar to what Adobe's doing with test the web
forward.
[07:48am] jkomoros: julee: Yes. That's a great idea
[07:48am] Garbee: jkomoros, Are you thinking for the sprint or all the time?
[07:48am] jkomoros: jswisher: As far as letting people know who will b
ether, things like lanyard, fan cast (?) to let people say they're going
[07:48am] jkomoros: Š and then people can tweet/share that page
[07:48am] jkomoros: Š as far as people saying what they're interested in
working on, a signup sheet on the wiki page
[07:49am] jkomoros: scottrowe_: I think we do have a lanyard event
[07:49am] jkomoros: ACTION: Scott and Peter to explore social media channels
about next week's docsprint
[07:49am] jswisher: *plancast.com <http://plancast.com>
[07:49am] Garbee: I think the Docsprint is on Lanyrd.
[07:49am] jkomoros: scottrowe_: 28 registered participants
[07:50am] jkomoros: Š and more registered on HTML5 user site
[07:50am] Garbee: http://lanyrd.com/2012/wds-webplatformorg-docsprint-2/
[07:51am] jkomoros: julee: Moving forward, I'd love for this group to be
able to say "hey, we'd love for folks to focus on <this> area"
[07:51am] Eliot left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[07:51am] jkomoros: Topic: Content bugs
[07:52am] jkomoros: julee: They're linked from the meeting page. That's
where you can find the bugs to work on
[07:52am] julee: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Content_Meetings
[07:52am] jkomoros: Topic: Template corps
[07:52am] jkomoros: shepazu: At the weekly meeting, Garbee and Tomato wanted
to open up templates, so they could edit them.
[07:52am] jkomoros: Š and I asked if it would be okay to just give
permissions to only people with interest in editing.
[07:53am] jkomoros: Š but I think Tomato was very interested in that.
[07:54am] Garbee: I think what Tomato and I are thinking is we want people
able to get the permissions they need without having to be an admin
outright.
[07:55am] Garbee: So handling permissions into groups as things come up
seems like a good idea to do it.