Re: modeling wallets

http://www.paymentlawadvisor.com/2015/05/12/fincen-and-department-of-justice-settle-anti-money-laundering-charges-against-crypto-currency-company-ripple-labs/

No real different in my world... Perhaps important for operators / users
though...
On Sun, 17 May 2015 at 9:18 pm, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 17 May 2015 at 12:49, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:
>
>> RE: "Galbraith ... says it's not important in the grand scheme of things"
>>
>
> That part was the comment from the regulator.  The bit in quotes was
> galbraith.
>
> By all means we could spend time trying to nail down a definition of
> money.  However, I've seen such discussions in the past, go on for 100s of
> hours and not make progress, so bear in mind that it may not be the most
> productive use of time.
>
> By using URIs to name things, it tends to be less restrictive.  Anything
> that can be named can be modeled.  They are just variable names.
>
>
>>
>> But we're not discussing the "grand scheme of things" here. We're
>> discussing technical informatics specifications.
>>
>> In the grand scheme of things, when the technical informatics specifications
>> in the domain of money & payment inherit deep architecture flaws (such as
>> ontological confusion) then the critical systems put in place inevitably
>> need to be sustained here and there with ad hoc work-arounds. Since 2007
>> we've all been witness to quite a few ad hoc work-arounds which have no
>> internal system logic, but which are driven by the need to prevent the
>> global money & payment "kernel" from crashing.
>>
>> Joseph Potvin
>> Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
>> The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
>> jpotvin@opman.ca
>> Mobile: 819-593-5983
>>
>> On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 6:03 AM, Melvin Carvalho <
>> melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 17 May 2015 at 04:50, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You're going to need to point to a general definition of "money" if you
>>>> want to arrive at a general definition of a class of thing which receives,
>>>> contains and dispatches it.
>>>>
>>>> But let me ask: Do you consider "money" to be an entity, or a
>>>> relationship?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've spoken to regulators about this.  One that I trust pointed me to
>>> Galbraith:
>>>
>>> Galbraith doesn't really give a hard definition because he says it's
>>> not important in the grand scheme of things... "The reader should proceed
>>> in these pages in the knowledge that money is nothing more or less than
>>> what he or she always thought it was - what is commonly offered or
>>> received for the purchase or sale of goods, services or other things."
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the context of IT architecture, the class Wallet is not a container
>>>> "of" money. It's a container of information "about" money. This is because
>>>> the class Money is not an entity, it's a relationship. That's a rather
>>>> critical difference to anyone's wallet ER diagram, certainly.
>>>> (See: "Money is a Social Relation
>>>> http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/29769872?uid=3739448&uid=2&uid=3737720&uid=4&sid=21106849248993
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> Money (the relation) might be stored with a tangible, say like gold.
>>>> Aside from looking nice, gold serves as a sort of solid metal "wallet".
>>>> Money (the relation) might otherwise be stored with a tangible like Bitcoin
>>>> -- most will be surprised that I call it a tangible, but the simple fact is
>>>> that it requires tangible human effort, computing resources and electrical
>>>> energy to "mine" and then to manage those units. People may say "gold is
>>>> money" or "bitcoin is money" but that's just colloquial loose language. A
>>>> quanity of Gold, or a Bitcoin, are entities. The connection with various
>>>> useful things you can exchange for a certain amount of gold or of Bitcoin
>>>> express the relationship. That relationship can stay the exactly same while
>>>> the entity varies.
>>>>
>>>> Joseph Potvin
>>>> Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
>>>> The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
>>>> jpotvin@opman.ca
>>>> Mobile: 819-593-5983
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 8:58 PM, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/16/2015 08:17 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>>>>> > "A wallet is a container of money"
>>>>>
>>>>> The Web Payments IG started out talking about "digital wallets" and
>>>>> quickly moved away from the idea since a "digital wallet" can hold many
>>>>> other things as Tim and Jorge point out.
>>>>>
>>>>> There seems to be some sort of consensus around the concept of an
>>>>> 'account' and a 'ledger'. Those terms aren't as accessible to most
>>>>> people was 'wallet', but it may be the right way to model these sorts
>>>>> of
>>>>> things.
>>>>>
>>>>> <Alice> <com:account> <Alice:#account1>
>>>>> <Alice:#account1> <com:currency> "USD".
>>>>> <Alice:#account1> <rdfs:label> "Party Money".
>>>>> <Alice:#account1> <com:ledger> <Alice:#ledger1>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- manu
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
>>>>> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>>>>> blog: The Marathonic Dawn of Web Payments
>>>>> http://manu.sporny.org/2014/dawn-of-web-payments/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> <819-593-5983>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>