Re: FYI: US authorities throw the book at Ripple Labs

These "deep"architectural" matters are fought out through UNICTRAL, just as
tech standards are fought out in the IETF, IEEE, ISO, W3C etc technical
cttees.

On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Jeffrey Cliff <jeffrey.cliff@gmail.com>
wrote:

> This is quickly becoming a net neutrality issue -- what's happening
> here is that the US government is trying to make our network no longer
> neutral to all participants.  In particular, participants that it
> chooses to no longer participate will no longer have the option to
> participate at what sounds like the protocol level.  Perhaps it is too
> soon to tell -- they've only so far made changes to RippleTrade and
> optional changes elsewhere -- but this announcement does not bode
> well.  Depending how they implement these changes, it will break
> financial inclusion for the budding network: Ripple Labs may not have
> a problem with that (since they have been focusing more on "including"
> only banks, completely ignoring the histoiry of Ripple as a way to
> live *without* banks).   As Joseph Potvin points out, though, this is
> only the first state actor to want this power.  How will they react
> when the government of Cuba or the the Hague or something tries to
> freeze the US government's accounts for money laundering in central
> america?  I think we all know -- this power will only be usable by
> *some* network participants.
>
> Anonymity is a stopgap to these kinds of problems occurring -- it
> forces the network, at least, to be honest.  I think we're going to be
> increasingly forced to recognize that what we are allowing, by our
> inaction, is a power grab over future network participants that cannot
> yet speak for themselves.
>
> Networks should beyond everything else be neutral and neither prevent
> users from using them for political reasons, nor inadvertently do so.
>
> Jeff Cliff
>
> On 07/05/2015, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:
> > RE: "the technology should not intentionally circumvent laws and
> > regulations"
> >
> > Nor inadvertenty.
> >
> > Joseph
> >
> > On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Adrian Hope-Bailie <
> adrian@hopebailie.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> p.s. To emphasize my first point, a quote from the article above:
> "Ripple
> >> Labs will improve the tools being used to analyze transactions on the
> >> protocol — but the protocol itself remains unchanged."
> >>
> >> On 7 May 2015 at 14:55, Adrian Hope-Bailie <adrian@hopebailie.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Joseph,
> >>>
> >>> I agree with you that the legalities surrounding payments are important
> >>> to our work but I would only say so to the point that the technology
> >>> should
> >>> not intentionally circumvent laws and regulations and provide
> mechanisms
> >>> for regulators to be able to do their jobs.
> >>>
> >>> Wrt the Ripple Labs case, I think this article provides a more balanced
> >>> view on the matter than many of the click-bait headlines that have been
> >>> doing the rounds:
> >>>
> http://www.americanbanker.com/news/bank-technology/what-ripples-fincen-fine-means-for-the-digital-currency-industry-1074195-1.html
> >>>
> >>> Personally, I think the first (and only when I looked) comment on the
> >>> article Tim linked to above says it all.
> >>>
> >>> In many respects, this is a sign that the traditional finance and
> >>> payments industry is waking up to the reality that digital currencies
> >>> and
> >>> the amazing technologies that are emerging on the back of them are not
> >>> just
> >>> a passing fad and are starting to take them seriously (either as
> >>> threats,
> >>> opportunities or both).
> >>>
> >>> Adrian
> >>>
> >>> On 7 May 2015 at 14:19, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> RE: "“Innovation is laudable but..."
> >>>>
> >>>> Official notices here:
> >>>> http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/nr/html/20150505.html
> >>>> http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/nr/pdf/Ripple_Facts.pdf
> >>>>
> >>>> For a W3C context, it's worth considering that this involves just one
> >>>> of
> >>>> the multitude of legal jurisdictions. This is why, in my post to this
> >>>> list
> >>>> yesterday entitled "Ongoing alignment of W3C Web Payments
> specification
> >>>> development to other in-scope global standards",  I referred to the
> >>>> fully
> >>>> global multi-jurisdictional forum which works at the 'root' level of
> >>>> e-commerce law, maintaining a set of so-called model laws:
> >>>> UNCITRAL WG IV: Working Group IV: Electronic Commerce, United Nations
> >>>> Commission on International Trade Law
> >>>>
> >>>>
> http://www.uncitral.org/uncitral/en/commission/working_groups/4Electronic_Commerce.html
> >>>>
> >>>> It's not a matter of going-all-legal, so to speak. It (usually) not
> >>>> very
> >>>> difficult just to take the legal parameters as business architecture
> >>>> documentation. Not doing so creates deep architectural bugs that
> >>>> inevitably
> >>>> result in cases like this one against Ripple Labs. These scenarios
> suck
> >>>> valuable resources and mindshare out of otherwise brilliant
> >>>> initiatives.
> >>>>
> >>>> Joseph Potvin
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 4:57 AM, Timothy Holborn <
> >>>> timothy.holborn@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> FYI...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Ripple Labs has been fined $700,000 by the US Financial Crimes
> >>>>> Enforcement Network (FinCEN) in the first successful civil
> enforcement
> >>>>> action against a virtual currency exchange."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> SOURCE: http://www.finextra.com/news/fullstory.aspx?newsitemid=27314
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Joseph Potvin
> >>>> Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
> >>>> The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
> >>>> jpotvin@opman.ca
> >>>> Mobile: 819-593-5983
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Joseph Potvin
> > Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
> > The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
> > jpotvin@opman.ca
> > Mobile: 819-593-5983
> >
>
>
> --
> GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any
> forum and add 1 to the generation
>



-- 
Joseph Potvin
Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
jpotvin@opman.ca
Mobile: 819-593-5983