W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webpayments@w3.org > May 2015

Re: decentralized wallets and payment processors

From: Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca>
Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 08:28:14 -0400
Message-ID: <CAKcXiSqx5S_kHtEuLxehixs5ihh81N_CXRWmim2omVpqYg4j8Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Web Payments <public-webpayments@w3.org>
PNC provides the following "about" summary when you click on features &
fees for their "Virtual Wallet" (and type in a random ZIP code).
https://www.pnc.com/en/personal-banking/banking/checking/virtual-wallet.html

In their terminology, a wallet can contain several accounts, that's to say
it's an account with "folders":

*Virtual Wallet is comprised of 3 accounts working together:*
*Your Spend account is a non-interest-bearing checking account*
*Your Reserve account is an interest-bearing c**hecking account used for
short term savings goals*
*Your Growth account is a savings account which earns interest and can be
used for longer term savings goals *

Joseph Potvin
Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
jpotvin@opman.ca
Mobile: 819-593-5983

On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 8:00 AM, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On 2 May 2015 at 13:13, Adrian Hope-Bailie <adrian@hopebailie.com> wrote:
>
>> Wallets vs Accounts
>>
>> I have come across very different definitions of a "wallet" both in this
>> group and amongst payments industry practitioners for some time. There
>> seems to be two camps. One sees the wallet as an account, simply a store of
>> value and the other as a virtual wallet that stores all the things one
>> normally stores in a physical wallet such as payment cards (ways to pay),
>> loyalty cards (ways to identity you as a member of some group), electronic
>> "cash" (which compares closely to the former definition).
>>
>> I see no value in the first definition, this is simply an account.
>>
>> To add, I think that a wallet shouldn't have too much built in "logic" or
>> "business rules" or it is no longer a wallet. My wallet in my pocket
>> doesn't execute payments autonomously.
>>
>> I like the definition of a wallet as being the virtual version of the
>> physical thing. A place to store instruments that can be used to complete a
>> payment, which if you think about it are normally just credentials of some
>> form.
>>
>> I also like the concept of a payment agent which the IG have started to
>> define in their architecture document. This is a service that acts as a
>> broker between an entity, it's wallet and/or accounts and other payment
>> agents. Under this model the wallet is a component of (or is interfaced to
>> by) the payment agent.
>>
>
> I had this exact issue during implementing, and had to change things
> around.
>
> My goal for a wallet is to make it lightweight.
>
> So there seems to be two ways:
>
> 1. User -> balance
>
> 2. User -> account -> balance
>
> Where accounts are useful is that they can sub divide balances per
> currency.  (1) cant easily do this unless you use currency as a type.  I
> got round this by having the default currency set to "bits".
>
> The advantage of (1) is simplicity leading to adoption.
>
> The advantage of (2) more fine grained control.
>
> Wallets are containers of one or more of these ledger entries, and provide
> a path to pay, deposit and withdraw.
>
> My current strategy is to go with (1) to start with, and if there's
> scalability issues (a nice problem to have) transition to (2)
>
>
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Adrian
>>
>> On 1 May 2015 at 19:19, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1 May 2015 at 19:04, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1 May 2015 at 18:42, David Nicol <davidnicol@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Conversely, is a digital wallet (or does a digital wallet imply) a
>>>>> bank account?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Banks tend to perform a number of mandatory services, of which a wallet
>>>> function is just one.  For example, withdrawal counters, direct debit,
>>>> standing orders, phone banking, reversing fraudulent payments, investments,
>>>> and many more.  The downside is that customers pay for these services in
>>>> the form of interest (either lower interest for savers, or higher interest
>>>> for borrowers), occasional defaults and bail outs.
>>>>
>>>> So I would say, a wallet is a small tool in banking services, it's not
>>>> the same as a bank account, imho.  But using the web as an existing
>>>> infrastructure can hopefully spur new innovation, and make existing systems
>>>> more efficient
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The matter will only be resolved by consensus on definition of terms,
>>>>> after a discussion in which the overlap is recognized and explored,
>>>>> and there is at least one clarifying
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, exactly.  Every term will have overlaps with others, and they
>>>> could be debated for a long time.  Our primary goal is to get the
>>>> definitions good enough, and quickly enough, so that software systems can
>>>> be built.
>>>>
>>>> Although interesting, and it's great to hear from legal experts, this
>>>> is not primarily a legal forum.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just wanted to clarify this a bit more.
>>>
>>> David says there's a venn diagram for overlapping terms.  So, spec
>>> designers will mean one thing by one term, legal experts will mean another
>>> thing, and general every day use of language will mean yet another.
>>>
>>> The process we come to consensus in software standards (at least at the
>>> w3c) is through ontologies, and learning through building software.  While
>>> it's really interesting to hear a cross section of views in the venn
>>> diagram, my hope in starting this thread was to focus on the software and
>>> ontology part.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> is produced.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Is a bank account a type of digital wallet?
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > A bank account is not a digital wallet
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Case law is made by litigants questioning Judges' decisions.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>


-- 

<819-593-5983>
Received on Saturday, 2 May 2015 12:29:03 UTC

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