W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webpayments@w3.org > July 2015

Re: sketching out HTTP 402 workflow

From: Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 19:06:25 -0400
Message-ID: <CAKcXiSr5QbQsBhE0cRwEaw1ryaAc3C8Qd3eXKL2oQitxtXrt4Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
Cc: Steven Rowat <steven_rowat@sunshine.net>, Web Payments <public-webpayments@w3.org>
RE: "derived identity"

The IM methods for implementing this are widely deployed for "persons" that
are corporations, for example:
IBM = I.B.M. = International Business Machines = International Business
Machines Corporation =  International Business Machines Inc. ... but
probably never "Big Blue" in any formal application.

Joseph Potvin
Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
jpotvin@opman.ca
Mobile: 819-593-5983

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On 28 July 2015 at 00:03, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:
>
>> This is also an accessibility issue (two quick examples, but surely there
>> are others), but it surely outside the scope of the present subject line.
>>
>> 1. Very many people whose names are very difficult to pronounce in, or
>> cannot even be directly expressed in any of the Web's domnant languages,
>> adopt functional pseudonyms.
>> 2. Some minority peoples have central-government-issued names that differ
>> completely from the names they are known by in their own communities.
>>
>
> OK, I think I've worked out how to do this.
>
> You have a *derived* identity.
>
> The derived identity can either be vouched for by
>
> 1. An individual e.g. to change name, or create a persona (you can trace
> back the original)
>
> 2. A group ... with a shared issuing power.  Any wrong doing can then be
> traced back to that group, but you dont know who it is.  You are only as
> strong as your weakest link.
>
> seeAlso: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dining_cryptographers_problem
>
>
>>
>> Joseph Potvin
>> Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
>> The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
>> jpotvin@opman.ca
>> Mobile: 819-593-5983
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Melvin Carvalho <
>> melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 27 July 2015 at 22:34, Steven Rowat <steven_rowat@sunshine.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/27/15 12:40 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>>>>
>>>>      These are the stories society needs most to know about, and it
>>>>>     would be a loss if the teller is silenced by local action.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.  Well I feel this is an admirable goal, but my primary focus
>>>>> for payments is to use it to help open source developers help each
>>>>> other (and themselves) to create code, and maybe make enough of a
>>>>> living to pay some of the bills.  In general most people in that
>>>>> community are not anonymous.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Aha, I misunderstood--your mechanism isn't intended as a general
>>>> solution to the sale of digital materials on the Internet, then. It's a
>>>> specific subset.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Oh no, not at all.  The technology is open ended.  Just letting you know
>>> the direction I want to personally go.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And here I was ready to go further in the other direction, more general
>>>> -- which thoughts I might as well include, in case someone else comes upon
>>>> this thread: here are some reasons why pseudonyms have been used throughout
>>>> history; a paragraph from the Wikipedia "List of Pen names" (
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pen_names), which gives a
>>>> summary as to why such a system has evolved:
>>>>
>>>
>>> By all means, if someone wants to build this, it would not be too hard,
>>> imho.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "A pen name or nom de plume is a pseudonym adopted by an author. A pen
>>>> name may be used to make the author's name more distinctive, to disguise
>>>> his or her gender, to distance an author from some or all of his or her
>>>> other works, to protect the author from retribution for his or her
>>>> writings, to combine more than one author into a single author, or for any
>>>> of a number of reasons related to the marketing or aesthetic presentation
>>>> of the work. The author's name may be known only to the publisher, or may
>>>> come to be common knowledge."
>>>>
>>>> In the list given at the Wikipedia link above (which is noted as being
>>>> incomplete), I see many well-known authors whose pseudonyms were:
>>>> George Orwell
>>>> Mark Twain
>>>> Ayn Rand
>>>> C. S. Forester
>>>> George Eliot
>>>> Guillaume Apollinaire
>>>> John le Carré
>>>> Joseph Conrad
>>>> Lewis Carroll
>>>> Pablo Neruda
>>>> Stendhal
>>>>
>>>> ...many more
>>>>
>>>
>>> When we talked to the BBC as part of the Social Web XG, they said this
>>> would be something they'd value.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> So it wouldn't be as if creating a payment mechanism for
>>>> 'pseudo-anonymity' would be adding a new function for the Internet; it's
>>>> already part of our publishing system. It's evolved over past centuries,
>>>> and the Internet would in effect be removing this evolved function of
>>>> publishing if it doesn't provide for it.
>>>>
>>>> But to return to this thread, such an evolution didn't occur with
>>>> reference to code-writers, since there weren't any, and maybe as you say
>>>> they don't need it...yet? But they might some day? Or, maybe it's already
>>>> important for some code-writers? Didn't Gibson say that the future is
>>>> already here, just unevenly distributed? Isn't code-writing political,
>>>> sometimes, already?
>>>>
>>>> And...isn't all work written in 'natural' language just code for the
>>>> brain? So if we're all in the process of becoming cyborgs, won't the
>>>> difference disappear?...if it hasn't already.   ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>> The payment system is simply denoting a user using a URI.  It just so
>>> happens that the URIs I use tend to be public.  Nothing in the
>>> infrastucture prevents anyone from taking things in another directions.
>>> Only thing we lack is coders, so that's why my first thought is to try and
>>> support that group.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> SR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Received on Monday, 27 July 2015 23:07:14 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 17 January 2020 19:07:41 UTC