- From: <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
- Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 16:55:37 -0500
- To: Web Payments CG <public-webpayments@w3.org>
Thanks to Joseph Potvin for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's Web Payments telecon are now available:
https://web-payments.org/minutes/2014-02-19/
Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web Payments Community Group Telecon Minutes for 2014-02-19
Agenda:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments/2014Feb/0092.html
Topics:
1. Web Payments Workshop
2. Web Payments Introductory Documents
3. Update on the Google Summer of Code 2014
4. Web Commerce API
5. Persona and Web Identity Spec
Resolutions:
1. Start an official vote on adopting the Web Commerce API as a
work item for the Web Payments Community Group.
Action Items:
1. Manu to ask Web Payments Workshop Program Committee to list
potential BoF venues.
Chair:
Manu Sporny
Scribe:
Joseph Potvin
Present:
Joseph Potvin, Manu Sporny, Brent Shambaugh, Dave Longley, David
I. Lehn
Audio:
https://web-payments.org/minutes/2014-02-19/audio.ogg
Joseph Potvin is scribing.
Manu Sporny: Natasha may join in later to talk about the
Web/Mobile payments task force
Joseph Potvin: Is there a quick update on any organizational
things based on Web Payments Workshop. [scribe assist by Manu
Sporny]
Topic: Web Payments Workshop
Manu Sporny: Paper reviews are due by the end of March. I think
we're currently overbooked for the workshop - lots and lots of
interest.
Joseph Potvin: Could we have a BoF? Would they be against it in
principle? If there are any side meetings, could someone locate a
nice cafe nearby if it doesn't interfere w/ the main agenda.
[scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: A BoF would be great in principles, but the venue
doesn't support it. Side meetings at some cafe nearby? Maybe we
can find a venue adjacent to the Palais - pub, cafe. [scribe
assist by Manu Sporny]
ACTION: Manu to ask Web Payments Workshop Program Committee to
list potential BoF venues.
Manu Sporny: The workshop is single track, nobody is going to
want to leave the venue for a BoF. [scribe assist by Brent
Shambaugh]
Topic: Web Payments Introductory Documents
Manu Sporny: We've not had a number of in-depth conversations
with people in economics, writing, programming that want to get
involved, but not sure how.
Manu Sporny: We have lots of specs, hard to locate an entry
point - we need better documentation
Manu Sporny: We don't have an overview or fucntional flow
document - that could be what they work on.
Manu Sporny: Need this for entry-points as well as big-picture,
those could be other work items.
Manu Sporny: Any other ideas? We have 3 volunteers, need an
outline, the volunteers can fill it out
Manu Sporny: Brent, weren't you one of the volunteers for this?
Brent Shambaugh: Going thorugh things right now, and will try to
map this.
Manu Sporny: Ok great, we'll do that as a starting point, do you
want us to draft an outline? [scribe assist by Dave Longley]
Brent Shambaugh: Would it help if i just went ahead and drafted
the outline? [scribe assist by Dave Longley]
Manu Sporny: If you could draft an outline based on what you've
read that would be very helpful, you have a fresh set of eyes on
this and we've been too entrenched for too long. [scribe assist
by Dave Longley]
Manu Sporny: That would be great if you could do that with your
new perspective, and then just post that to the mailing list and
we'll discuss it [scribe assist by Dave Longley]
Manu Sporny: Anything else on the intro docs? [scribe assist by
Dave Longley]
Topic: Update on the Google Summer of Code 2014
Manu Sporny: We submitted the CG as a mentor organization to the
Google Summer of Code
Manu Sporny:
https://www.w3.org/community/webpayments/wiki/GSoC2014ProjectIdeas
Manu Sporny: Wide variety of possible topics, 3 categories
(novices, intermediate, advanced)
Manu Sporny: Students can apply, salary is about $5500 to pay
for expenses to work on the project over the summer
Manu Sporny: All WPCG projects are open source, open standard
Manu Sporny: We just wait now to see if we're approved.
David I. Lehn:
https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2014
Manu Sporny: GSoC organizations will be announced on Feb 24.
Manu Sporny: If accepted, we need to make some noise about our
projects so we can recruit students.
Topic: Web Commerce API
Manu Sporny:
https://web-payments.org/specs/source/web-commerce-api/
Manu Sporny: This is the resurrected Mozpay API that we covered
a few weeks ago.
Manu Sporny: Based on our consultation, the workshop focus may
be on payments request and digital receipts, this spec describes
how we can do that.
Manu Sporny: This allows all proprietary player to stay as-is,
but also new entrants into the marketplace.
Manu Sporny: The approach seems to work for proprietary payment
providers, cryptocurrency wallets, and open payment solutions,
but it is not yet an official work item
Manu Sporny: We would need to vote on this as a WPCG work item
Joseph Potvin: How did we manage to leave it off the charter
vote? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: Mozilla retracted it before we voted on the
charter, we resurrected it a week after we voted on the charter.
It was just bad timing, which is funny because this could be the
most important spec we do.
Manu Sporny: It was too browser specific at first, but others
determined that it could be made generic, which we did.
Manu Sporny: Mozilla is okay with using it again, and will
decide later on support.
Manu Sporny: Can be later implemented in browsers, doesn't
require browser buy-in at first.
Dave Longley: I'm in support of including it as a work item.
PROPOSAL: Start an official vote on adopting the Web Commerce
API as a work item for the Web Payments Community Group.
Joseph Potvin: +1
Dave Longley: +1
Manu Sporny: +1
Brent Shambaugh: +1
David I. Lehn: +1
RESOLUTION: Start an official vote on adopting the Web Commerce
API as a work item for the Web Payments Community Group.
Brent Shambaugh: I'm concerned about there being so much focus
on Bitcoin that PaySwarm may be lost in the excitement, what does
PaySwarm provide that Bitcoin doesn't? [scribe assist by Manu
Sporny]
Manu Sporny: Basically, it standardizes the payment process for
the web. The payment request and the response format. Bitcoin
doesn't do that. It also promotes a solid identity solution for
the Web, which Bitcoin doesn't have either. How to list assets
for sale in a decentralized way, how to provide machine-readable
offers of sale (listings). How to do digital receipts, there's a
lot that it does that Bitcoin doesn't because PaySwarm is more
high-level than these other protocols. It deals w/ the commerce
layer, not the payment clearing layer. [scribe assist by Manu
Sporny]
Dave Longley: Right now, there is no standard way to initiate a
payment and know that the payment happened, that's basically what
PaySwarm provides. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Topic: Persona and Web Identity Spec
Manu Sporny: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Identity/Persona_AAR
Manu Sporny: Mozilla put out something confusing, an After
Action Review, which they typically only do after they tombstone
a product.
Manu Sporny: Idea was a simple web login mechanism, things going
well, pushed it for a while, but then leaders left Mozilla, and
now there is a worry that Mozilla is going to pull the rest of
the developers off of the project. I don't know anything yet, but
it seems suspicious and is typically what Mozilla does before
they wind down a project.
Manu Sporny: This is an issue for Web Payments because we
depends on Persona for a clean login solution.
Manu Sporny: The customer's payments provider is identified with
the login.
Manu Sporny: If the technology is orphaned, we'll need an
alternative solution.
Manu Sporny: Mozilla probably has a continuity plan, but we just
don't know what it is yet.
Manu Sporny: We've elaborated in the Web Identity spec a bit
here: https://web-payments.org/specs/source/web-identity/
Manu Sporny: Scroll here to see the changes:
https://web-payments.org/specs/source/web-identity/#a-typical-identity
Manu Sporny: ID is composed of data, and some assertions (some
3rd party validates your data, with a digital signature)
Manu Sporny: Identity validation is very important to trusted
payments, and login is very important to ease of use. We also
need to talk about the name.
Manu Sporny: Web Identity and WebID are different specs, the
differences are confusing some folks.
Manu Sporny: The proposal would be to change the title of the
"Web Identity" spec to "Identity Assertions" [scribe assist by
Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: If the spec goes to "identity assertions", is
this an assertion validation spec in general? Maybe we should
take "identity" out of the title? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: We want to be careful about scope creep, the
general technology can be used for assertions on just about
anything. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: I wouldn't expand the scope of work, but the
choice of the name doesn't mean we need to increase the scope.
[scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Maybe we could say "Entity Assertions"? Maybe
identifier for an entity? Depends on where we want to go with
that. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: Identity could get us into problems w/ metadata
that goes into identity. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Web Assertions is okay - how to make assertions on
things on the Web. Maybe people could say that assertions are too
broad? Validation is the wrong word? [scribe assist by Manu
Sporny]
Dave Longley: It's more like you're verifying / validating?
[scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: Wouldn't you get Identity Assertions anyway?
[scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: We could say that this is just about identity -
"Identity Assertions" and say that others can use this same
approach for other technologies. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Yeah, I guess we can do that. [scribe assist by
Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: Does this have to be limited to a person? What
about a corporation? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: A thing?
Manu Sporny: Yes, included
David I. Lehn: bike Shed... resource assertions? does that fit
into the semantic terminology better?
Dave Longley: Yes, we're talking about "Entity Assertions"
[scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: But we may just want to use a more understandable
name for the spec title. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Entities with URL
Dave Longley: I think identity assertions says what the spec is
for? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Brent Shambaugh: How does the identity data get handled?
Manu Sporny: We say there has to be a way to read/write data to
that entity, and to request that info
Manu Sporny: Data lives with your service provider, somewhwere
on the web, document you are served, for example
Manu Sporny: Yeah, so for example -
https://dev.payswarm.com/i/manu [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: The spec outlines how the requests for the info are
issued and answered, under what conditions
Manu Sporny: The person who owns that identity controls the
access to the entity's info
Manu Sporny: So do we have a proposal to rename the spec?
David I. Lehn: I still think the "Identity Assertions" name is
strange... seems like there are a lot of pieces to this. [scribe
assist by Manu Sporny]
Joseph Potvin: I think that it might be bad that people
associated "identity" with "people". [scribe assist by Manu
Sporny]
Manu Sporny: I think that's a good thing. [scribe assist by Manu
Sporny]
Dave Longley: I think that's an advantage... isn't it? [scribe
assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: A more generic name "Entity Assertion" will be
more difficult. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: We could talk about "Identity Exchange" or some
other synonym to "read/write"? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: The spec does provide more than that - it's a
readable / writable identity. Part of that is being able to write
stuff to the identity. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
David I. Lehn: What's the scope of the spec? [scribe assist by
Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: Creating a readable/writable identity where pieces
of that identity can be modified. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: There's nothing to say that people can add things
to do this in another way. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley: We should get the message across about "Read,
write, verify identity" [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Brent Shambaugh: We Could do Agent Identity or Agent Assertion,
is that vague?
Manu Sporny: Yeah, anything w/ "Agent" typically means
"software" wrt. Web technologies, so it might be confusing.
Manu Sporny: Ok, we're out of time and we don't have consensus.
Let's think about this offline, perhaps something better will
come to us.
Received on Wednesday, 19 February 2014 21:56:00 UTC