Fwd: Transclusion Transcopyright Micropayments

Forwarding this reply, as I don't think Jonas is on the
public-webpayments@w3.org list. Sorry if double-posting.

Joseph


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jonas Öberg <jonas@commonsmachinery.se>
Date: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: Transclusion Transcopyright Micropayments
To: Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca>
Cc: Web Payments CG <public-webpayments@w3.org>, Peter Liljenberg
<peter@commonsmachinery.se>


Hi Joseph!

Thank you so much for reaching out about this: what you're thinking
about is indeed very aligned with our thoughts going into the future.
We're currently working on just what the infrastructure to support
this would be, but we will ultimately need to look at payments too,
and this is a good opportunity to do so. I'm copying our technical
lead Peter to this too: he's on vacation this week, but will get to it
when he returns.

What we see ahead of us in the deep future is a way to visualise in a
browser the full context of a work - meaning to hover over a work to
see information about the creator, previous works, peoples reaction to
the work, place of original publication, date of publication, and so
on and so forth. Information which invites the viewer to explore the
work more, to discover it in its true context, even if the work has
since its publication been re-purposed or re-used elsewhere. As part
of that information, we definitely do see a link to payment mechanisms
to support those whose works you find online.

We aim to do this by means of a distributed catalog of works and an
open protocol to retrieve information from such a catalog. Some may
provide information about their works in their own catalog, others use
a service to do so, or even have existing web services such as Flickr
or YouTube provide the same interface to their works and thereby
allowing them to be part of the same distributed catalog. There are a
lot of details that could potentially go into expressing information
about a work. Our thoughts at the moment is to try to cater to this by
essentially allowing any kind of information that can be expressed as
an RDF graph.

And then, it's up to the recipient application to interpret this and
offer appropriate options to the user if it supports the Web Payments
information that is expressed in the graph.

Sincerely,
Jonas



On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:
> Jonas, Please see the brief exchange below. The context for this is:
> http://www.w3.org/2013/10/payments/
> https://web-payments.org/
>
> For the web-payments community group, I'd put this in the potential "use
> cases" category.
>
> To borrow the example of the demo video on the CommonsMachinery home page,
> this question can be framed in terms of enabling easy voluntary peer-to-peer
> crowdfunding towards Joe, who has placed work under a CC-by.
>
> Actually, a good case-in-point could be this link which recently made the
> rounds:
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/01/26/russian-mother-captures-atmospheric-photos--family-portraits-of-sons-on-farm/1
>
> The photographer is showing her photos without a fee. No matter what license
> type for copying and redistribution, imagine if people whose hearts she's
> warmed could, I dunno, right-clink on the photo and in the drop-down list
> there's "Support". From there a peer-to-peer micropayment could be activated
> for the amount the heart-warmed viewer prefers. For text works, let's say
> that in a browser or from a PDF, or whatever, the reader can always
> highlight selected text, right-click, and can select "Support". Same for a
> tweet. The support should be a "thumbs-up" like plus a monetary value
> option.
>
> Well, authenticity of attribution will really matter a lot.
>
> And since copyright is about the particular expression, not about the idea,
> ine text works there will be a strong incentive to always paraphrase and
> rarely quote another author, since with the paraphrase any support money
> would go to the paraphraser, whereas with the direct quote, some of the
> support money would make its way to the original author who expressed
> something (...but who may have paraphrased somebody else's expression of a
> good idea). Easy flow of funds could make this all super cool when it works
> well, and awfully upsetting when it doesn't.
>
> For the simple use case, though, I'm wondering if there's anything that
> would be needed on the side of a W3C web payments spec and ref
> implementation to facilitate this. My first impression is that it's all for
> the other end to design and implement, therefore "no". But my second
> impression is that there might be something to address within the web
> payments spec to accommodate rights initiatlves like CommonsMachinery, rXrML
> and RDF.
>
> What's your assessment?
>
> Joseph Potvin
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Andrew Mackie <andrew@supplydemand.info>
> Date: Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 11:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Transclusion Transcopyright Micropayments
> To: public-webpayments@w3.org
>
>
> This project, which is about embedding attribution and license metadata into
> content, might be a useful step in that direction -
> http://commonsmachinery.se/
>
>
> On 15/02/2014 06:36, Joseph Potvin wrote:
>
> In Ted Nelson's original concept of transclusion he mentioned the
> requirement for micropayments for any fee-constrained re-use.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transclusion
> Transclusions in an HTML-Based Environment http://hrcak.srce.hr/file/69293
> Transcopyright http://transcopyright.org/
> Transcopyright for the Web http://xanadu.com/tco/
>
> From what I have noticed so far, the current interest of a few major
> publishers in W3C-related Web Payments work is to implement micropayments
> for the viewing of whole pages. Is there also an expressed demand at this
> time for transclusion-based micropayments towards transcopyright? And does
> it imply any particular requirements for an eventual WP spec to ensure that
> transclusion-related payments are natively supported?  Just ask'n.
>
> --
> Joseph Potvin
>
>
> --
>
> Andrew Mackie
> website: www.supplydemand.info
> twitter: @SupDemand
> email: andrew@supplydemand.info
>
>
>

Received on Monday, 17 February 2014 20:09:19 UTC