Re: Ripple

Thanks Evan. It's certainly an interesting "thing". Please permit me to
pursue the XRP a little further to be clear about what sort of thing it is.
Money has three essential use cases: (1) a medium of exchange, (2) a
unit ofaccount, (3) a standard
of deferred payment (requiring that it be a stable store of value). It
seems to me that XRP has only one defensible use case, which is to be a
hyper-efficient medium of exchange for web payments. I see no use case at
all for it being treated a unit of account (hence my quip about saying it
might as well be declared equal in value to a banana), and I see no use
case for it being treated as a store of value (also why I chose the banana,
which has a well-known short half-life).

Why is the XRP not designed to just appear and disappear as needed, like a
synthetic element in the periodic table. What's the use case for anyone or
for Ripple Labs to "hold" any XRPs?

Borrowing from someone else's thought: If XRP currently trades for ~100 XRP
per 1 USD then 50 billion XRP retained by Ripple Labs and its investors is
currently valued at 500 million USD in "goodwill". The only use case I can
think of for that is to make Ripple Labs and its investors really happy as
long as it lasts. I'm not against anyone making a bunch of money on
creativity and carrying risk, but that's a separate matter. Is there any
use case in that big stock of XRP from the perspective of the parties to
web payments?

Joseph Potvin

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Evan Schwartz <evan@ripple.com> wrote:

> ripplescam.org actually hasn't posted anything since Ripple was open
> sourced in September. The fact that the rippled code wasn't immediately
> open sourced seems to have been the main gripe there.
>
> The purpose of having XRP in the network as an asset is twofold: first it
> helps bridge between different currencies and second it's used for very
> small transaction fees that help prevent people from spamming the network.
>
> Right now the transaction fees are worth something like .0000001 USD so
> most users won't notice them much, but it adds up quickly if you're trying
> to spam the ledger or the network with junk transactions. In order to do
> transactions on the network you need to be holding some XRP, so it needs to
> be a "holdable" asset.
>
> When you "pay" the fee though we're not collecting that money, rather it
> is being destroyed by the network (which has the effect of slightly raising
> the value of everyone's XRP, so you're paying your fee to all of the
> network users). This is why the fee currency needs to be internal to the
> network so it can actually destroy some amount. If you go to
> https://ripple.com/graph/ you can see in the top left how many total XRP
> there are still in the network.
>
> Does that make sense?
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 11:42 AM, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:
>
>> RE: Ripple Labs isn't playing a hoarding game but
>>
>> I don't have any opinion on that at this point, but some people think it
>> is: http://ripplescam.org/  (Sorry if posting that link seems
>> aggressive. That's not my intent. It's out there and shows up in searches,
>> so I'm just being forthcoming.)
>>
>> RE: "The value of 1 XRP matters to currency traders, Ripple Labs, and
>> anyone else holding XRP as an asset. "
>>
>> That seems entirely unnecessary to me, and a "bug" in the current
>> business architecture of Ripple. Why permit the holding of XRPs at all? In
>> the grand scheme of things, what's the value added from their persistence?
>> I still advocate for 1 XRP = 1 banana, compared with the XRP's current
>> design. (To see where I'm actually coming from, see:
>> http://www.bengrahaminvesting.ca/Outreach/2009_Symposium.htm and
>> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/investment-ideas/commodities-as-a-global-currency/article1346127/
>> ...although even more I prefer an "Earth Reserve" base, which I and some
>> colleagues are working on.)  Meanwhile the private consortium aspect of The
>> Fed is hardly something to be replicated -- the more successful Ripple
>> becomes, the more suspicion and "divergent" interests it will attract. It
>> fear it would become the monetary instantiation of The Peter Principle.
>>
>> In any case, the value of a BTC or an XRP is nothing more than brand
>> loyalty, what the accountants call the value of "goodwill", since any
>> number of parallel currencies just like them can be created.
>>
>> Joseph Potvin
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Evan Schwartz <evan@ripple.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Q1: What is it about the A's role, and about the B's role that positions
>>>> all the A's as currency price makers, and all the B's as currency price
>>>> takers?
>>>
>>>
>>> Only that the A's have put out offers on the books. Anyone can create an
>>> offer and it'll be treated equally to anyone else's. In practice we expect
>>> that certain users will use the system primarily for currency trading so
>>> you'll see a lot more offers put out by those but as far as the system is
>>> concerned all accounts have the same potential functionality.
>>>
>>>
>>> Q2: In this model, what are the criteria and information sources that
>>>> A1, A2 and A3 are assumed to use when offering their preferred amounts of
>>>> EUR to buy those USD? Anything and everything available to them, correct?
>>>>
>>> Yes. They have access to the same network data about existing offers as
>>> everyone else.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Q: Can a machine register to and participate in Ripple? Or do all Ripple
>>>> members need to be flesh&blood people. Is it possible for a machine to join
>>>> Ripple as if it were a flesh&blood person, and if it did, would the Ripple
>>>> system or team know or care?  Today, what's the proportion of machine
>>>> accounts to flesh&blood accounts amongst Ripple subscribers?
>>>
>>>
>>> People can definitely create bots that trade on Ripple. I'm not sure it
>>> would be possible in any system to stop this from happening and I'm also
>>> not entirely sure that we'd want to. Modern currency trading seems to be
>>> more of a machine's game but what we're hoping for is that any human or
>>> machine traders on the network will facilitate very cheap exchanges between
>>> currencies, which will let basic users do cross-currency payments at a
>>> fraction of the cost and time it takes now.
>>>
>>>
>>> Okay, and this order book is determined by all the offers from A1, A2
>>>> and A3, however that plays out. Correct?
>>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Q: How does an EUR→XRP rate and an XRP→USD rate play into all of this?
>>>> Here's what I presume, correct me if I'm wrong...
>>>>
>>>> RE:  Transactions can and often do take multiple paths to get the best
>>>> rate
>>>>
>>>> A path is a series of trades underway at a given time, correct, such as
>>>> USD→CAD with CAD→EUR to get a USD→EUR trade.  And where a suitable path
>>>> can't be found, the Ripple algorithm will insert XRP. Correct? XRP always
>>>> fills in gaps.
>>>>
>>> In order to do a USD -> EUR trade the system will look at direct USD ->
>>> EUR paths, USD -> XRP -> EUR paths, and I believe some more indirect ones
>>> as well. XRP is meant to fill in those gaps so that you don't actually need
>>> people trading on all of the possible pairs of currencies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Q:  Does the value of 1 XRP matter?  As mere gap-filler, I don't think
>>>> so.  XRP is just grease. Am I wrong?  In what context does the value of 1
>>>> XRP really matter?
>>>
>>>
>>> The value of 1 XRP matters to currency traders, Ripple Labs, and anyone
>>> else holding XRP as an asset. For anyone using the system to make a payment
>>> the value of XRP won't really matter because their money isn't "in" XRP for
>>> any real period of time like it would be with Bitcoin if someone made a
>>> payment USD -> BTC -> EUR outside of the Ripple network. Payments are
>>> either executed in atomic time or they'll fail if the rates have changed
>>> dramatically between the time when a price was quoted and when the user
>>> decided to execute it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Q: Why not set the purchasing power of 1 XRP to the tangible market
>>>> price of 1 banana?
>>>>
>>>> The 100 billion XRP's would thus be valued at about a dozen container
>>>> ships of bananas
>>>> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-29/maersk-s-8-4-billion-bananas-add-to-ship-profits-freight.html
>>>> I jest, of course. But my fundamental point here is that if XRP were tied
>>>> to something tangible, RippleLabs would be trusted not to be playing some
>>>> sort of massive hoarding game. XRP would be understood to be just grease.
>>>> ...or bananas.
>>>>
>>> Ripple Labs isn't playing a hoarding game but we are hoping that the
>>> price of XRP, and thus the 25 billion XRP that the company is using to
>>> sustain itself, appreciates in value. I think most of the people in the
>>> company would agree with Jeffrey Cliff's earlier comment. We only make
>>> money if the network we've built and are continuing to improve provides a
>>> useful service for people.
>>>
>>>
>>> Is this "end user" a price taker?  I'm always interested in the price
>>>> makers.
>>>>
>>> When I say end user I'm generally talking about price takers / people
>>> trying to make payments
>>>
>>>
>>> More questions?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 3:30 AM, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Evan, Thanks for this!
>>>>
>>>> RE: If you want to see all of the outstanding offers for any currency
>>>> pair you can do that directly in the client.
>>>>
>>>> So, I see in my UML mind a stickman, whose role is labelled: [Fill in
>>>> blank, referred to here as A]. There's another one: [Fill in blank,
>>>> referred to here as B].  Let's say A1, A2 and A3 each want some USD, and
>>>> each is offering their preferred amounts of EUR to buy those USD.  Let's
>>>> say B wants some EUR, and so...
>>>>
>>>> RE: the path finding engine will search direct and indirect paths for
>>>> the rate that is best for the initiator.
>>>>
>>>> So the path finding engine discovers that A2 is offering B the best
>>>> rate.
>>>>
>>>> Q1: What is it about the A's role, and about the B's role that
>>>> positions all the A's as currency price makers, and all the B's as currency
>>>> price takers?
>>>>
>>>> Q2: In this model, what are the criteria and information sources that
>>>> A1, A2 and A3 are assumed to use when offering their preferred amounts of
>>>> EUR to buy those USD? Anything and everything available to them, correct?
>>>>
>>>> Now, the following observation is not meant in any way to challenge
>>>> Ripple. It's only meant to acknowledge the environment within which Ripple
>>>> and all the A's and all the B's have to live, for the time being. This is
>>>> the $5.3 trillion / day forex ecosystem dominated by top predators:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-04/swiss-regulator-probes-alleged-foreign-exchange-manipulation.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/11/15/foreign-exchange-trading-investigation/3573499/
>>>>
>>>> http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/oct/30/barclays-cooperating-investigation-manipulation-currency-markets
>>>> "Treasury's War" by Juan Zarate
>>>>
>>>> http://www.publicaffairsbooks.com/publicaffairsbooks-cgi-bin/display?book=9781610391153
>>>> "Currency Wars" by James Rickards
>>>>
>>>> http://www.us.penguingroup.com/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,9781591844495,00.html
>>>>
>>>> In this ecosystem, then, I'm wondering from where it is assumed that
>>>> A1, A2 and A3 get their information to offer their preferred amounts of EUR
>>>> to buy USD? Let's structure this directly:  Let's say that A1 and A2 are
>>>> machines running unique forex algorithms, and leave A3 as a flesh&blood
>>>> person. So A3 is somebody who "watches the forex market" and reckons that
>>>> some amount of EURs for USD is a good bet this afternoon.
>>>>
>>>> Q: Can a machine register to and participate in Ripple? Or do all
>>>> Ripple members need to be flesh&blood people. Is it possible for a machine
>>>> to join Ripple as if it were a flesh&blood person, and if it did, would the
>>>> Ripple system or team know or care?  Today, what's the proportion of
>>>> machine accounts to flesh&blood accounts amongst Ripple subscribers?
>>>>
>>>> Let's focus on A1 and A2 machines. What are the most important data
>>>> feeds that each machine's algorithm might be coded to draw upon in order to
>>>> generate their EUR-for-USD offers at any given moment?  Let's say A1 is
>>>> designed to statistically interpret the WM-Reuters spot rate
>>>> http://www.wmcompany.com/pdfs/026808.pdf and is able to project it
>>>> correctly by a few hours 60 per cent of the time. And lets say A2 is
>>>> designed as "a news-trading algorithm. The computer will not be interested
>>>> at all in long-term value considerations. It will look at semantic
>>>> relations in news announcements"
>>>>
>>>> http://www.lgt-cm.com/shared/.content/publikationen/$verwaltung_publikationen/sciene/The-self-organization-of-markets-LGT-working-paper-v2-1_en.pdf
>>>>
>>>> RE: "Regarding the order book and exchange rates, the order book is
>>>> public and is one of the pieces of information the system uses consensus to
>>>> determine."
>>>>
>>>> Okay, and this order book is determined by all the offers from A1, A2
>>>> and A3, however that plays out. Correct?
>>>>
>>>> Q: How does an EUR→XRP rate and an XRP→USD rate play into all of this?
>>>> Here's what I presume, correct me if I'm wrong...
>>>>
>>>> RE:  Transactions can and often do take multiple paths to get the best
>>>> rate
>>>>
>>>> A path is a series of trades underway at a given time, correct, such as
>>>> USD→CAD with CAD→EUR to get a USD→EUR trade.  And where a suitable path
>>>> can't be found, the Ripple algorithm will insert XRP. Correct? XRP always
>>>> fills in gaps.
>>>>
>>>> Q:  Does the value of 1 XRP matter?  As mere gap-filler, I don't think
>>>> so.  XRP is just grease. Am I wrong?  In what context does the value of 1
>>>> XRP really matter?
>>>>
>>>> The system is not designed for XRP hoarding, like BTC hoarding is done
>>>> and even encouraged. It seems to me that XRP does what economists do: "Lets
>>>> assume that this in-between trade did exist to complete the path."  Then
>>>> act as if it does. I don't mean to criticize -- it's a clever thing to do.
>>>> But some have expressed concern that Ripple Labs is hoarding all the XRP,
>>>> and that they will increase in value. So how about this:
>>>>
>>>> Q: Why not set the purchasing power of 1 XRP to the tangible market
>>>> price of 1 banana?
>>>>
>>>> The 100 billion XRP's would thus be valued at about a dozen container
>>>> ships of bananas
>>>> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-29/maersk-s-8-4-billion-bananas-add-to-ship-profits-freight.html
>>>> I jest, of course. But my fundamental point here is that if XRP were tied
>>>> to something tangible, RippleLabs would be trusted not to be playing some
>>>> sort of massive hoarding game. XRP would be understood to be just grease.
>>>> ...or bananas.
>>>>
>>>> RE:  all the end user really needs to know about is the amount it'll
>>>> cost them in the currencies they have to send some amount in another
>>>> currency to someone else
>>>>
>>>> Is this "end user" a price taker?  I'm always interested in the price
>>>> makers.
>>>> Joseph Potvin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 10:36 PM, Evan Schwartz <evan@ripple.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am one of the engineers at Ripple Labs. I've been with the company
>>>>> for 3 months so I can speak to a fair number of these points but for the
>>>>> nitty gritty details of how consensus works I'll bring our chief
>>>>> cryptographer David Schwartz into the conversation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the order book and exchange rates, the order book is public
>>>>> and is one of the pieces of information the system uses consensus to
>>>>> determine. If you want to see all of the outstanding offers for any
>>>>> currency pair you can do that directly in the client.
>>>>>
>>>>> When someone wants to make a trade or do a cross currency payment the
>>>>> path finding engine will search direct and indirect paths for the rate that
>>>>> is best for the initiator. If you want to see visuals of these paths
>>>>> happening you can go to ripple.com/graph and click on a transaction
>>>>> entry to see a visualization of the paths. Transactions can and often do
>>>>> take multiple paths to get the best rate but all the end user really needs
>>>>> to know about is the amount it'll cost them in the currencies they have to
>>>>> send some amount in another currency to someone else. If you take a look at
>>>>> the Send tab in the client and have a couple of different currencies in
>>>>> your wallet you can see this functionality in action.
>>>>>
>>>>> Happy to try to answer any more questions you all have, I think
>>>>> there's a lot of opportunity for collaboration between Ripple and this
>>>>> group.
>>>>>
>>>>> Evan
>>>>> On Nov 17, 2013 3:25 PM, "Joseph Potvin" <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RE: it has an order book and the market determines the price
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How exactly?  And is the order book and associated process documented
>>>>>> somewhere? I'd love to see the UML sequence or activity diagram, for
>>>>>> example, but text will do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the general user experience that of a price-maker or price-taker?
>>>>>> A currency "price maker" is asked to bid. A currency "price taker" is shown
>>>>>> a rate as a fait-accompli.  And does the user make or take the intermediate
>>>>>> XRP rate, or the destination currency rate?  (i.e. If Fred pays CAD to a
>>>>>> vendor who wants to receive USD, he'd want to make or take the CAD-USD
>>>>>> rate. The CAD-XRP then the XRP-USD rates would be invisible and of no
>>>>>> concern to him.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Melvin Carvalho <
>>>>>> melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 17 November 2013 23:24, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Melvin, Can you point to the specific documentation about how
>>>>>>>> Ripple determines XRP inter-currency spot exchange rates with all the
>>>>>>>> central bank currencies,and for BTC? And is there a documented policy for
>>>>>>>> choosing the official source of exchange rate data for any other present or
>>>>>>>> future alt crypto currency out there would be added to the Ripple portfolio
>>>>>>>> of currencies?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AFIAK it doesnt use a spot rate, it has an order book and the market
>>>>>>> determines the price.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tx,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joseph Potvin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Melvin Carvalho <
>>>>>>>> melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 17 November 2013 22:27, Fabio Barone <holon.earth@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I should do this as a homework, I apologize,
>>>>>>>>>>  but I'm currently pretty busy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Would someone be so kind and answering these questions about
>>>>>>>>>> Ripple:
>>>>>>>>>>  - Is the code open source?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Is the protocol they use openly documented,
>>>>>>>>>>   as openly as bitcoin is?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can only answer this superficially as I've not written a web
>>>>>>>>> ripple implementation (yet)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But it seems to be yes: https://ripple.com/wiki/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You only ever know after you've drilled down into every last
>>>>>>>>> detail ... something I plan to do next year ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2013/11/17 Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/14/2013 04:30 PM, Andrew Miller wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. But this doesn't work for public/anonymous networks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why doesn't it work for public/anonymous networks? Link? This is
>>>>>>>>>>> Web of
>>>>>>>>>>> Trust stuff we're talking about, isn't it (chained trust
>>>>>>>>>>> metrics)?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  3. Ripple, on the other hand, takes yet another approach.
>>>>>>>>>>>> There's no
>>>>>>>>>>>> global administrator, but nor is there a well-understood public
>>>>>>>>>>>> competition. Instead, individual users are supposed to configure
>>>>>>>>>>>> their clients to identify particular servers they have
>>>>>>>>>>>> determined
>>>>>>>>>>>> they trust.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't this a good thing? If you allow anyone to pick who they
>>>>>>>>>>> trust, you
>>>>>>>>>>> force cooperation in the system, don't you? The idea being that
>>>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>>>> system to be useful, people need to coordinate and thus won't
>>>>>>>>>>> pick
>>>>>>>>>>> participants with whom they entirely disagree with.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Here's where it gets really murky, and I can't figure out any
>>>>>>>>>>>> set of
>>>>>>>>>>>> assumptions that actually lead to robust functioning of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> network.
>>>>>>>>>>>> What if users entirely disagree with which servers they trust?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why would someone deliberately do this? If you have to pick from
>>>>>>>>>>> 32
>>>>>>>>>>> servers, why would you pick from 32 servers that are in a
>>>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>>> different trust set? It would be incredibly difficult to do that
>>>>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>>>>> dependency chain based system, wouldn't it?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Are they on two different networks or the same one?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  If an individual doesn't do their due diligence, and carelessly
>>>>>>>>>>>> approves bad servers, are they individually affected or does it
>>>>>>>>>>>> affect the overall network?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd expect that in the worst case, the overall network suffers.
>>>>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>>>>> the likelihood of this is in the 51% attack against the Bitcoin
>>>>>>>>>>> network
>>>>>>>>>>> category, isn't it?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  I really wish more people were looking into this rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>> ignoring
>>>>>>>>>>>> it, because I suspect it's not sound (although I haven't come
>>>>>>>>>>>> up with
>>>>>>>>>>>> a super clear explanation why not), and if the underlying
>>>>>>>>>>>> assumptions
>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't sound then does it matter if the frontend UI is great?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, yeah, if the algorithm is broken then no UI in the world
>>>>>>>>>>> is going
>>>>>>>>>>> to save it. However, I don't think you've explained quite why
>>>>>>>>>>> Ripple's
>>>>>>>>>>> consensus algorithm is broken. Why is allowing individuals to
>>>>>>>>>>> pick whom
>>>>>>>>>>> they trust a bad thing (when the number of servers is large
>>>>>>>>>>> enough)?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Unfortunately the only set of assumptions I can think of that
>>>>>>>>>>>> lead
>>>>>>>>>>>> to this actually working is where every one essentially picks
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same default list, and the servers on that list are actually
>>>>>>>>>>>> trustworthy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think the problem surfaces when a group of servers create a
>>>>>>>>>>> trust set
>>>>>>>>>>> that has no intersection with another set of servers. With that
>>>>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>>>>> why would anyone do this? What's the attack?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  This is the "centralized" option, where the default list
>>>>>>>>>>>> determines
>>>>>>>>>>>> who participates, and no user has any incentive to deviate from
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> default list, either by adding some newcomer they individually
>>>>>>>>>>>> trust
>>>>>>>>>>>> or by removing default servers they don't trust.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I thought that only a subset of the list needs to be trusted for
>>>>>>>>>>> Ripple
>>>>>>>>>>> to function, and all trust sets that all servers choose have to
>>>>>>>>>>> overlap
>>>>>>>>>>> by at least a small degree. Is that not true?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -- manu
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu
>>>>>>>>>>> Sporny)
>>>>>>>>>>> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>> blog: Meritora - Web payments commercial launch
>>>>>>>>>>> http://blog.meritora.com/launch/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://goo.gl/Ssp56>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://goo.gl/Ssp56>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Evan Schwartz
>>> Developer + Technology Pioneer
>>> Ripple Labs Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> Evan Schwartz
> Developer + Technology Pioneer
> Ripple Labs Inc.
>
>
>



<http://goo.gl/Ssp56>