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Re: Ripple a scam?

From: Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 12:13:49 -0500
Message-ID: <CACvcBVrjfpF3+pLN4b71kRKU9omDyQXuYYtEVqJ8bZJApKHAAQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: nathan@webr3.org
Cc: Jeffrey Cliff <jeffrey.cliff@gmail.com>, Web Payments CG <public-webpayments@w3.org>, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
For reference, Melvin Carvalho posted a link on the list to a video about
the future of Bitcoin by Mike Hearn. At the end of the talk (~24:48) Mike
mentions that Bitcoin is still centralized, but Ripple is a completely P2P
(decentralized) currency exchange.

 "Mike Hearn on Bitcoin" Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:05 AM

>Sorry posted this to wrong list, it was meant to be web payments

>Some on the webid list may still find it interest, as it talks about
payment workflows between different identities aka 'smart >contracts' :)


>On 31 March 2013 19:18, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:

   > https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mD4L7xDNCmA

On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Nathan <nathan@webr3.org> wrote:

> I agree, I know a few of the ripple developers and they all assure me that
> they just want it critical-bugless before released.
> Put it this way, I trust it enough to hold several hundred thousand XRP
> and use it daily and give feedback + submit issues, so I for one trust it.
> Jeffrey Cliff wrote:
>> It should be pointed out that the so far cloeed components are planned to
>> be opened--the system is not yet stable enouhh and they are just trying to
>> figure out how to do this in such a way thay they won't likely have to
>> reset the ledger afterwards.   In the meanwhile  it is sensible to not use
>> it, given the source isn't finished yet...but the criticism *as a system*
>> that it is closed is imho invalid.
>> On 2013-04-26 10:40 AM, "Nathan" <nathan@webr3.org> wrote:
>>  Manu Sporny wrote:
>>>  Interesting commentary on Ripple being a scam:
>>>> http://ripplescam.org/
>>>> #bitcoin #ripple #payswarm #w3c #futureofmoney
>>>> Some of the arguments are fairly weak, I think the underlying assumption
>>>> that the author is making is that Ripple is attempting to be Bitcoin (it
>>>> isn't, it's a for-profit currency run by a corporation). So, if you
>>>> trust Ripple, most of the arguments go away.
>>>> The open source argument is pretty solid, so is the one about hoarding
>>>> of XRPs. The OpenCoin developer arguing in the comment thread certainly
>>>> didn't help defend Ripple.
>>>> I think the real argument is whether or not Bitcoin is better than
>>>> Ripple, and in this case, it completely depends on what you want out of
>>>> the currency. Fast transactions? Use Ripple. Decentralized and open
>>>> source? Use Bitcoin.
>>>> Any commentary from payment folks on this list?
>>>>  Yes! I use both daily, and heavily.
>>> There are two things here:
>>> a) Ripple as a clearance system.
>>> b) Ripple XRP as a currency.
>>> Ripple as a clearance system is rather good, it'd be better if it was
>>> open
>>> source, but it's certainly setting the bar and more than usable (I use it
>>> daily). Worst case the rippled project can be reimplemented using the
>>> details on the wiki and using the API (which isn't great). The low
>>> friction
>>> and latency is hard to live without once you are used to it.
>>> Another + is that ripple has opensourced some rather good client
>>> libraries
>>> in Javascript, and lots of tooling for it.
>>> Ultimately you cannot directly compare Ripple and Bitcoin directly. You
>>> can compare the currencies, in which case there are two ways to compare
>>> and
>>> value them.
>>> 1) Traditionally, where the value of the currency is the amount of trust
>>> behind it
>>> 2) In ripple case, where XRP is a utility of the network, in which case 1
>>> XRP has the value of 10k-100k transactions depending on how the fees are
>>> set.
>>> The aside issue, is the distribution of the pre-mined currency. Are they
>>> doing this to get rich and get out, or get rich while making things
>>> better
>>> for the general population. If the first case then that sucks, if the
>>> second case then who cares? I'm sure we all hope Satoshi and the original
>>> bitcoin pushers are rich today, and likewise I hope the Ripplers will be
>>> too.
>>> Ultimately, a well defined clearance system similar to ripple, supporting
>>> multiple currencies will and should become the norm, ripple is pushing
>>> the
>>> populations in the right direction. That can't be a bad thing.
>>> Best,
>>> Nathan

Brent Shambaugh

I've worked with polymers, I teach chemistry, I'm currently researching how
to build distributed economies.
Website: http:// <http://bshambaugh.org/experiments/connect_dots3.html>
Received on Friday, 26 April 2013 17:14:17 UTC

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