- From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 06:54:45 +0200
- To: Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
- Cc: "public-webpayments@w3.org" <public-webpayments@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAKaEYhKEkKw7CC8u0kSVPMfh7brubGpPWPNYVKc5ihtsNbZGCg@mail.gmail.com>
On 27 September 2012 02:39, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com> wrote: > On 09/23/2012 02:59 PM, Amir Taaki wrote: > > Anyway the purpose of this rant is that if we use trust networks for > > payments, then you better be sure that your trust network is pretty > > fucking solid. If it can be gamed, then people will put in insane > > hours to do it for $1 or less. I like the idea of thinking about > > them in terms of sets of overlays, but I feel like perhaps there > > might be more to this story. Perhaps there is a way to describe the > > relationships between overlays in a set. Or maybe the way nodes in > > this directed graph weight the trust values that aggregate along > > them. > > This. > > We (Digital Bazaar) has been thinking about the trust issue related to > payments for quite a long time. At present, we've conceived of a number > of ideas, but nothing that we would want to depend on as an automatic > part of the transaction process. Trust is not only variable between the > type of operation you're attempting to perform (buy a piece of digital > music from an unknown vendor), it can also be variable based on /who/ is > doing the purchase and /who/ is doing the selling and /what/ is being > exchanged. The saying "Honor among thieves" captures this trust issue > quite well. You can't trust a thief, but some thieves trust each other. > > I do think that there is a technology solution for the Web Payments > problem (creating an open, decentralized, payment mechanism for the > Web). I do not think that there is a technology "solution" for the trust > network problem because it is constantly evolving. That is, your trust > network is only good until it gets gamed. Building something that is > game-proof is going to have to be an iterative, long-term effort. An > effort that has no end. It's certainly something worth attempting, but > definitely not something that should be standardized at any point in the > near future. > > That said, one of the reasons PaySwarm utilizes URIs for 'Identities' > and JSON-LD to represent information is precisely because of the unknown > nature of the trust problem. The same goes for the payments problem. We > assume that we're not going to get it right the first time, or the > second time, or the third time. You need flexibility in the system to > change over time and URIs and Linked Data empower you to do that. > > So, here's what we have in PaySwarm so far that can be applied to make > good in-roads on the trust network problem: > > 1. People and Organizations can have multiple identities on PaySwarm. > For example: https://dev.payswarm.com/i/manu > 2. Information about that identity can be expressed as Linked Data on > the site where the identity exists, and on any other site on the Web. > 3. Anybody on the Web can make statements about the identity above. > These statements can include praise, complaints, referrals, and a > variety of other "signals" that can help an individual decide > whether or not to transact with the other party. > > Given the above, we've been thinking of making PaySwarm Authority > software be able to vouch for identities on the network. For example: > > * This identity has performed 104 successful transactions. > * This identity has had 4 complaints logged against it. > * This identity has performed $5,400 worth of transactions without > complaint (dangerous privacy implications). > * This identity has performed at least 100 transactions in the > price range that you are about to exchange. 98% of those > transactions happened successfully and without complaint. > > We want to do this in a Web-y way, for example, here's the JSON-LD > expressing the last bullet item above: > > { > '@context': 'http://purl.org/payswarm/v1', > 'id': 'https://dev.payswarm.com/i/manu', > 'price': { > 'amount': '25.00', > 'currency': 'USD' > }, > 'priceVariance': '5.00', // acceptable % variance in price above > 'transactionCount': 100, > 'transactionSuccessRate': '98.0' // % of successful transactions > } > > It'll be easier to put this together after we have some good live data > in the system. > Nice! I think creating reputation data and not necessarily 'trust inferences' is the way to start. What you describe is similar to bitcoin OTC web of trust http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratings.php Note also there's a old trust vocab here : http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/Europe/reports/trust/11.2/d11.2_trust_vocabularies.html > > -- manu > > -- > Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny) > Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc. > blog: Which is better - RDFa Lite or Microdata? > http://manu.sporny.org/2012/mythical-differences/ > >
Received on Thursday, 27 September 2012 04:55:14 UTC