- From: Steven Rowat <steven_rowat@sunshine.net>
- Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 08:07:05 -0700
- To: public-webpayments@w3.org
Greetings, I have watched the videos of the CCNx/NDN community meeting on Sept 9 2011 (Program: http://www.ccnx.org/ccnxcon2011program/) and want to share my impressions here. I believe that CCNx development will be of interest and possibly important to this web-payments group. Caveat: I don't program in CCNx; many of the presenters were foreign-language speakers; and the acoustics in the question periods were sometimes poor, not everyone waited for a mike, and no transcript has appeared. Together these things mean I can't always be sure of what was going on. But, regardless, several things were so clear that even I couldn't miss them. :-) . First, this is a large and active endeavor that crosses academic, corporate, and national boundaries: many universities were represented and have active development (Cambridge; UCLA; U. of Beijing; Colorado State; U of Bern; many more); and many large and small corporations and companies as well (the larger including Alcatel-Lucent-Bell; Toyota; Samsung; Intel). There also appear to be people from many countries involved; not only by the ethnic and language mix but by mentions of programs in other countries and universities (France, Switzerland, China, Korea, England, Japan). Second, CCNx, which this community is coding, is only one aspect of the effort; there are other ways of expressing the concept and other names and centers. NDN – Named Data Networking – is another major way (http://www.named-data.net/); I believe that one is more directly academic-based; whereas CCNx, having been started at PARC/Xerox, has a more corporate emphasis – although I believe it's all open source in both cases. There are others. In any case some key people appear to be working in/on more than one of them, so they are closely related. Third, more directly related to web-payments and to the main point I want to develop here, is the fact that almost all the formal presentations were about transport-layer configuration and efficiency problems, without reference to the overall purpose of CCNx/NDN and how it might benefit society as a whole. This was addressed directly in the question periods, where the moderator asked for, and got, suggestions about things that were lacking in the overall roadmap for CCNx/NDN. One questioner, a senior academic (identified as "Karen"), asked extensive questions and made suggestions that included this critical core: (paraphrased from my notes): "Replacing the internet as we know it is a huge uphill job and we need to have a truly compelling set of reasons for it, or else why do it?" In other words, she was asking "What is the benefit to society?" No general answer was given that I saw in the meeting; and my belief is that the work the web-payments group is doing *might* be the most important answer to that question (although there are others). Hence the need to remain aware of what both groups are doing. In other words, as my thinking goes, if web-payments can become viable using current HTML, then CCN might not be necessary, and may not end up replacing the current Internet protocols. If, however, it turns out that one of Van Jacobson's predictions is correct: that the complexity, security, and distribution-bandwidth problems of point-to-point TCP/IP *preclude* the successful efficient initiation of web-payments by small players, then it may be that CCNx/NDN and web-payments need each other, necessarily. That is: Web payments may need CCNx/NDN in order to to be implementable for small players; and CCNx/NDN may need web-payments as a goal in order to get the impetus to overcome the huge inertia that is the entrenched HTML4/5 protocol. If, after experimentation by web-payments, that *does* prove to be the case then at some point the web-payments group will need to port their work on top of a growing underlayer of CCNx/NDN transport protocol code. And for that to occur, there will need to be recognition and co-ordination in both groups. In addition, as part of the question-periods, several other concepts were brought up and noted by the moderator as key lacks of the CCNx/NDN efforts to date: among these were, interestingly, business models, meta-data integration, and privacy issues. These have been worked on for years by ODRL and RDFa and other groups, and are being worked on (and in some cases co-ordinated) by web-payments. This makes it seem even more likely and beneficial that such co-ordination should occur between the CCNx/NDN and web-payments groups (if it turns out that CCNx/NDN is truly necessary). Understandably, unless CCNx/NDN gets to a certain point of functionality, no-one developing in TCP/IP will move to it even for testing. But I think it's worth being aware that this might occur soon, and be ready. CCNx/NDN is already in testbed mode with tunnels though the internet linking PARC and several university hubs (http://www.named-data.net/testbed.html). In this regard I'm not the right person to know what's operational and what's not, although I did notice the interesting development of the javascript CCNx browser node (https://github.com/truedat101/ccn4b#readme; see also the .zip of a Poster explaining it, reachable from the CCNx program page linked earlier; presenter is Kordsmeier). Given the CCNx/NDN people's questions about their own high-level purposes, I believe it would also be good if they could get information relating to the web-payments effort; in particular, I believe the CCNx/NDN people need a way to hear answers that come from people outside their specialized community. I sent them a short submission relating to this on their website feedback form, in which I included some ideas and links, including to the web-payments group pages. Of course, hopefully, someone from CCNx/NDN is already monitoring web-payments/ODRL/RDFa (etc.) development, and realizing that they might benefit from interfacing with it. If not, I hope that they will begin. Steven Rowat p.s. A final note about CCNx/NDN overall development: NDN is one of only four groups who are recipients of National Science Foundation grants for designing the future internet (Future Internet Architecture Awards); and this was narrowed down from 50 groups in an earlier choice process that took 5 years. (http://www.nets-fia.net/.) My reading of the four groups' summaries is that at least the first three (CCN/NDN; MobilityFirst; and Nebula) and possibly also the fourth (eXpressive) can probably co-exist and provide mutually supportive levels of architecture. In other words, perhaps by design, the narrowing-down process of the NSF awards may no longer be looking through a group of competing processes that will yield eventual winners and losers. They may now be funding things that will all come to pass, together.
Received on Friday, 14 October 2011 15:07:31 UTC