RE: Paper on Summary of ISO12812 by Alan Thiemann

I think it _can_ be stored there but it doesn’t _need_ to be. The point of HCE is that it allows some (perhaps limited) set of credentials to be held in application space on the device so that a payment application developer can create payment applications without needing a commercial and technical relationship with a third-party that holds the keys/controls for a dedicated hardened secure area.

IMO if we restrict the development of payment solutions to architectures that require a complex ecosystem of security providers as well as the solution provider itself, we bake in a set of complexities that have held back mobile payments for years.

There are other ways to manage the risk with things like limited use (by time, channel, device, amount) tokens so that cost of compromise is reduced be implementations remain straightforward.

Your point is well made that in HCE much of the secret sauce is kept off the device – but there is still sensitive material in user space (or at least, there can be).

Nick
--
Nick Telford-Reed
e: nick.telford-reed@worldpay.com<mailto:nick.telford-reed@worldpay.com> | m: +447799473854 | t: +44 203 664 5069

From: Adrian Hope-Bailie [mailto:adrian@hopebailie.com]
Sent: 20 May 2015 15:12
To: Telford-Reed, Nick
Cc: ??(??); Joerg.Heuer@telekom.de; public-webpayments-ig@w3.org; ajthiemann@gmail.com; David_E3@VERIFONE.com
Subject: Re: Paper on Summary of ISO12812 by Alan Thiemann

I think you can accommodate HCE by saying that this kind of data should be stored in the SE or TEE etc IF it is stored on the device?

On 20 May 2015 at 11:28, Telford-Reed, Nick <Nick.Telford-Reed@worldpay.com<mailto:Nick.Telford-Reed@worldpay.com>> wrote:
That pretty much at a stroke knocks out Host Card Emulation, which is Google's approach to mobile payments, so I think I would be reluctant to make that step.



--
Nick Telford-Reed
e: nick.telford-reed@worldpay.com<mailto:nick.telford-reed@worldpay.com> | m: +447799473854<tel:%2B447799473854> | t: +44 203 664 5069<tel:%2B44%20203%20664%205069>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 孙倩(雪迪) [mailto:sunqian.sq@alibaba-inc.com<mailto:sunqian.sq@alibaba-inc.com>]
> Sent: 19 May 2015 04:10
> To: Joerg.Heuer@telekom.de<mailto:Joerg.Heuer@telekom.de>; public-webpayments-ig@w3.org<mailto:public-webpayments-ig@w3.org>
> Cc: ajthiemann@gmail.com<mailto:ajthiemann@gmail.com>; David_E3@VERIFONE.com
> Subject: 答复: Paper on Summary of ISO12812 by Alan Thiemann
>
> Hi all,
> So, can we change the description to "Important data, such as the fingerprint
> template and private key, and sensitive code should be stored and executed
> in a security area (e.g. TEE, SE etc.) "?
>
>
>
>
> -----邮件原件-----
> 发件人: Joerg.Heuer@telekom.de<mailto:Joerg.Heuer@telekom.de> [mailto:Joerg.Heuer@telekom.de<mailto:Joerg.Heuer@telekom.de>]
> 发送时间: 2015年5月18日 22:58
> 收件人: 孙倩(雪迪); public-webpayments-ig@w3.org<mailto:public-webpayments-ig@w3.org>
> 抄送: ajthiemann@gmail.com<mailto:ajthiemann@gmail.com>; David_E3@VERIFONE.com
> 主题: RE: Paper on Summary of ISO12812 by Alan Thiemann
>
> Hello,
>
> While we definitely support the importance of security hardware for the use
> of privacy-risky technology, I suppose to not explicitly ask for a technology,
> but rather talk about its capabilities. For several uses an SE might still be okay,
> though TEE might be desirable for the future. In fact, it might take a long time
> for TEEs to proliferate until then, we should allow existing solutions to kick in
> as soon as possible. I'd probably try to even think about how TPM/ MTM
> could be helpful too.
>
> In this case, I'd propose to just refer to a "technology to store and validate
> fingerprint templates in separate security hardware on the device or
> physically connected to it".
>
> Cheers,
>       Jörg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 孙倩(雪迪) [mailto:sunqian.sq@alibaba-inc.com<mailto:sunqian.sq@alibaba-inc.com>]
> Sent: Montag, 18. Mai 2015 09:10
> To: 'David Ezell'; public-webpayments-ig@w3.org<mailto:public-webpayments-ig@w3.org>
> Cc: 'Alan J. Thiemann'
> Subject: 答复: Paper on Summary of ISO12812 by Alan Thiemann
>
> Thanks for Alan's summary.
>
> For the" Part 2: Security and data protection for mobile financial
> services"，I have some consideration that in order to protect financial
> privacy useful, the mobile device technology should combines Secure
> Elements
> (SE) and a Trusted Execution Environment (TEE) to protect payment
> credentials. Beacause the SE only has Limited processing and storage
> capacity, but TEE can offer safe execution of authorized security software,
> known as 'trusted applications', enables it to provide end-to-end security by
> enforcing protection, confidentiality, integrity and data access rights.
>
> And when we design the payment architecure and use cases, we should also
> pay attention to that some payment application should be served as a
> TA(trusted
> appliation) to run in the TEE for security.
>
> For example in the Use case  "6.2.3.1 Non-essential Use Cases -Biometric",
> we have already emphasized as following:
> An individual's privacy should be protected when performing any sort of
> biometric authentication.
> Important data, such as the fingerprint template and private key, and
> sensitive code should be stored and executed in a Trusted Execution
> Environment (TEE).
>
> -----邮件原件-----
> 发件人: David Ezell [mailto:David_E3@VERIFONE.com<mailto:David_E3@VERIFONE.com>]
> 发送时间: 2015年5月18日 0:56
> 收件人: public-webpayments-ig@w3.org<mailto:public-webpayments-ig@w3.org>
> 抄送: Alan J. Thiemann (ajthiemann@gmail.com<mailto:ajthiemann@gmail.com>)
> 主题: Paper on Summary of ISO12812 by Alan Thiemann
>
> Dear Web Payments group:
>
> My colleague Alan Thiemann[1] has written a summary of ISO 12812[2].  This
> work is Alan's opinion of the work - not official.  But it is a very good
> introduction to the work and the expected trajectory at ISO.
>
> I would request that everyone in our group give this paper consideration - it
> won't take long, and will help inform any needed discussion.
>
> Best regards,
> David
>
> [1] Alan is on the Board of Advisors for Conexxus (NACS technology) and
> does work for NACS.  He serves as chair of the X9 Mirror Group handling ISO
> 12812 work in the US.
> [2]
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/2015May/att-

> 0254/Executive_
> Summary_of_ISO_12812_05012015.pdf
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