- From: Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca>
- Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 06:29:04 -0400
- To: Web Payments IG Comments <public-webpayments-comments@w3.org>, Web Payments <public-webpayments@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAKcXiSqMPch=aewkyTtFMP3yuDJwHPGofabrzcc9UGm+xB_Buw@mail.gmail.com>
On "payments" vs "commerce", this ISO 12812 article by the Convenor of ISO/TC 68/SC 7/WG 10 raises the same point: http://www.iso.org/iso/home/news_index/news_archive/news.htm?refid=Ref1535 "To better capture the breadth of these functions, as well as other functions or variations that may emerge, it might be more accurate to use the term “mobile commerce”." The choice of words here is non-trivial, since the particular functions that occur amongst buyers and sellers are regulated under contracts law, and the particular functions that occur with and amongst financial entities are under money/banking/securities law. On the significance of this distinction, consider the particular example that when the central bank in Finland determined that a BTC was a vitural commodity, they were declaring that it is consequently regulated under contracts law, not money/banking/securities law. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-01-19/bitcoin-becomes-commodity-in- finland-after-failing-currency-test The fundamental corollary: "U.K. tax authorities are considering whether Bitcoins should be liable for value-added tax, chargeable at 20 percent in Britain, after meetings with Bitcoin users. Currency transactions are usually exempt. “Virtual currency is not legal tender -- if it was, VAT would definitely not be due,” Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs said in an e-mailed response to questions." The upshot: Any e-commerce solution that treats paying with EUR and paying with a BTC as merely a choice of currencies with no tax implications for the transaction in that choice will itself present a legal risk... from the get-go. As the recent FinCEN vs. RippleLabs case illustrates: http://www.americanbanker.com/news/bank-technology/what-ripples-fincen-fine-means-for-the-digital-currency-industry-1074195-1.html More generally, it's fundamental for all participants in this initiative to be hyper-clear about what legal requirements they are working under when creating specifications for various functions. To this end it would be helpful for the inititiative as a whole, as well as in its task groups, to accurately reflect the legal contexts implied in the terminology being used. The global-level touchstone on this is the entity comprised of lawyers from Justice Departments from around the world: UNCITRAL. Joseph Potvin Project Coordinator, DataKinetics http://www.dkl.com Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman jpotvin@opman.ca Mobile: 819-593-5983 On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote: > Thanks Manu, This is a useful list (also convenient for review ahead of > the Faster Payments Task Force meeting). > > RE: ISO 12812 Summary (20 minutes) > https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2015May/att-0011/Executive_Summary_of_ISO_12812_05012015.pdf > > Good to include that. However did the IG determine that ISO/IEC 19845 > (UBL) has no direct relevance to the scope of the Web Payments IG'd work? > > https://www.w3.org/community/webpayments/wiki/A_Quick_Introduction_to_UBL_Oriented_to_Payment_Solutions_Designers > ...in particular see: > > https://www.w3.org/community/webpayments/wiki/A_Quick_Introduction_to_UBL_Oriented_to_Payment_Solutions_Designers#Relationship_with_ISO_20022 > > Has the IG simply not had the time to consider this in particular? Or is > there opposition within the IG to ISO/IEC 19845? > > To quote from the W3C WP IG's "Response to X9’s Comments on WPIG’s Use > Cases and Capabilities Document": > "You suggest that our effort might be better expressed as “Web Commerce” > versus “Web Payments.” This is consistent with other feedback we have been > received on our use cases and capabilities work. As you rightly observe, > several aspects of what we are working on (e.g., trust, credentials, > digital signatures, loyalty programs, etc.) extend beyond a payment > transaction and are applicable to other standards efforts that may not even > involve payments." > > My purpose in preparing that "Quick Introduction" (with guidance from the > UBL TC Chairs) was to clarify the functional relationship between ISO/IEC > 19845 and the "payments system standards" per se. In a nutshell, standards > conformance would have it that: "ISO 20022 messages originate from ISO/IEC > 19845 invoices." > > Joseph Potvin > Project Coordinator, DataKinetics http://www.dkl.com > Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations > The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman > jpotvin@opman.ca > Mobile: 819-593-5983 > > > On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com> > wrote: > >> Hi WPCG'ers, >> >> I've created a condensed reading list for the Web Payments Interest >> Group for the upcoming face-to-face meeting in New York City next week. >> The purpose of the reading list is to bring people that are not familiar >> with the current state of things up to date. >> >> I'm sending the list to this group to make sure that the community is >> aware of the discussions that will be happening next week. Feedback is >> appreciated, but keep in mind that I'm not in control of the schedule or >> many of the presentations, so requests to change content will most >> likely not be made (but if you raise a good point, I'll try to raise it >> during the meeting). >> >> The condensed reading list for the Web Payments face-to-face is sorted >> by day, filtered by importance. Times are listed beside each reading >> item to give you a rough idea of how much time it'll take to get >> through the basic material. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> All three days will assume you have a basic understanding of the >> following four documents: >> >> Vision (15 minutes) >> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Payment_Agent_Task_Force/Vision >> >> Use Cases (read sections 1-4 - 30 minutes) >> >> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webpayments/raw-file/default/latest/use-cases/index.html >> >> Capabilities (60 minutes) >> >> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webpayments/raw-file/default/ED/capabilities/2015-06-13/index.html >> >> Roadmap (15 minutes) >> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Roadmap >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Here is the reading list for Tuesday: >> >> Capabilities Presentation (10 minutes) >> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page/FTF_June2015/Capabilities >> >> Use Cases Presentation (10 minutes) >> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page/FTF_June2015/UseCases >> >> Secure Elements Presentation (10 minutes) >> http://www.w3.org/2015/06/secure_elements.pptx >> >> Settlement Presentation (10 minutes) >> http://www.w3.org/2015/06/settlement-201506.pdf >> >> Glossary Presentation (5 minutes) >> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page/FTF_June2015/Glossary >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Here is the reading list for Wednesday: >> >> ISO 12812 Summary (20 minutes) >> >> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2015May/att-0011/Executive_Summary_of_ISO_12812_05012015.pdf >> >> Security Next Steps Presentation (10 minutes) >> >> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page/FTF_June2015/SecurityNextSteps >> >> Payment Architecture Working Group DRAFT Charter: >> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Roadmap/PaymentArchitectureWG >> >> Adoption and Deployment Presentation (10 minutes) >> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page/FTF_June2015/Deployment >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Here is the reading list for Thursday: >> >> Use Cases Next Steps (10 minutes) >> >> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page/FTF_June2015/UseCasesNextSteps >> >> W3C TPAC 2015 Schedule (10 minutes) >> http://www.w3.org/2015/10/TPAC/ >> >> -- manu >> >> -- >> Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny) >> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc. >> blog: Web Payments: The Architect, the Sage, and the Moral Voice >> https://manu.sporny.org/2015/payments-collaboration/ >> >> >> > > > -- > > --
Received on Sunday, 14 June 2015 10:29:55 UTC