Direct debit. Re: Apple Pay hurdles

On 2014-10-28 10:37, Adrian Hope-Bailie wrote:

Hi Andrian,

I don't want to go into a big debate here but the chip-cards
and certified payment terminals used in the EU makes the security
issue small.  The resistance to direct debit is simply not visible.

The US and the EU are quite different in this respect.

However, on the web all bets are off since none of this proven
technology works there.

Regards,
Anders

> Hi Anders,
>
> My point is not that it's not possible but that actually consumers are saying they prefer to use the card networks and for the payment to be processed by them because they are afforded protections that they don't get under system that directly debits their accounts.
>
> Read the comments on the following article for a sample of public opinion:
> http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/25/currentc/
>
> Personally I would only want to pay someone directly from my account if it is a push payment initiated by me on a channel that is secured directly between me and my bank.
> I am not giving some merchant scheme the ability to pull funds out of my account, especially after the merchants have proven they can't keep their data secure.
>
> The retailers want to cut out the card networks and they are entitle to do that, competition is great, but the current approach is at the expense of the customer experience which to my mind means it's doomed.
>
> Adrian
>
> On 28 October 2014 11:28, Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com <mailto:anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 2014-10-28 10:09, Jonathan Rosenne wrote:
>
>         Dear Anders,
>
>         When you say debit, do you mean immediate debit  or delayed debit?
>
>
>     Hi Jonathan,
>     I don't have any detailed information (since nothing is publicly documented...)
>     but as an actual user I can attest that the money indeed is immediately withdrawn :-)
>
>
>         If the card networks are bypassed how do the messages get
>
>     > switched from the merchant's bank to the customer's bank? What network is used?
>
>     I believe most of the magic is dealt with by the merchants' payment processors.
>     These systems are national.
>
>     Best regards,
>     Anders
>
>
>
>         Best Regards,
>
>         Jonathan Rosenne
>
>         054-4246522
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: Anders Rundgren [mailto:anders.rundgren.net@__gmail.com <mailto:anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>]
>         Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:58 AM
>         To: Adrian Hope-Bailie
>         Cc: Web Payments CG; public-webpayments-comments@__w3.org <mailto:public-webpayments-comments@w3.org>
>         Subject: Re: Apple Pay hurdles
>
>         On 2014-10-28 08:44, Adrian Hope-Bailie wrote:
>
>             The majority of the market commentators believe that MCX is going to go the way of the dodo and that Apple Pay will ultimately be accepted at the tills of these retailers.
>
>             The problem MCX have is that they are disabling Apple Pay to promote their own system CurrentC which tries to bypass the card networks by debiting user's chequing accounts directly.
>             Why is this a problem?
>             1. The system is poorly designed and a lot harder to use than simply swiping a card.
>             2. As yet their is no incentive for customers to use CurrentC (it's not actually available to use yet) and by the time it launches in early-2015 expect Apple Pay to be able to match any loyalty or coupon system CurrentC offers.
>             3. Apple Pay doesn't share your identity with merchants and Apple doesn't track your spending either. The merchants don'tlike that but surprise surprise, consumers do.
>             4. Consumers like using their credit cards because of the consumer
>             protection tied to it 5. Some of the biggest retailers have recently had significant data breaches and yet they expect their customers to use an app that requires them to provide data to the retailer that would give the retailer the ability to debit funds directly from their chequing accounts.
>
>             Basically, the MCX retailers are desperate to cut out the card networks (to reduce the fees they pay) but are doing this at the expense of their customers.
>             Sounds like a bad idea to me.
>
>
>         The CurrentC technology may be bad but the concept of direct debit bypassing the credit-card networks is established since at least 20 years back in Europe.
>         Credit is essentially only used when you are either broke, abroad or on the web (on foreign sites).
>
>
>
>             Final thought.
>             Apple Pay is a token based contactless payment mechanism using
>             biometric security
>
>            > to secure the client. Today it uses tokens that are processed on card networks  > to authorise the payment against a card.
>
>             If a new better payment mechanism (push based hopefully) becomes
>
>            > popular what is stopping Apple from integrating this into Apple Pay?
>
>         I'm sure that is possible.  What's unclear to me is the win at least when applied to existing payment networks.
>
>         It seems that loyalty schemes are currently unsupported by Apple Pay.
>         This is covered by the Google Wallet.
>
>         It is a pity that there's so little information available.
>
>
>             Why is it impossible to imagine that the TouchId can't be used
>
>            > eventually to unlock a locally stored Bitcoin wallet
>
>         It is indeed entirely plausible.
>
>         Anders
>
>         (or similar - the 10 minute clearing on Bitcoin is a problem for b&m sales) and make a payment.
>
>
>             On 28 October 2014 08:46, Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com <mailto:anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com> <mailto:anders.rundgren.net@__gmail.com <mailto:anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
>
>             http://www.cnet.com/news/____apple-caught-in-the-middle-of-____feud-betwee <http://www.cnet.com/news/__apple-caught-in-the-middle-of-__feud-betwee>
>             n-merchants-credit-__card-__companies/
>             <http://www.cnet.com/news/__apple-caught-in-the-middle-of-__feud-between-m <http://www.cnet.com/news/apple-caught-in-the-middle-of-feud-between-m>
>             erchants-credit-card-__companies/>
>
>                   In most EU countries payments using payment cards do not involve the card networks.
>
>                   Apple must have overlooked that fact...
>
>                   This is why the WebCrypto++ payment demo was designed to be equally suitable for the
>                   big credit card networks as for bank-to-bank and ACH transactions.
>
>                   Unlike the cards used in the physical world that comes with a credit-card brand as well,
>                   you would probably enroll separate virtual cards for reasons like fee differentiation,
>                   branding and simply to get a cleaner design.
>
>                   Anders
>             https://mobilepki.org/____WebCryptoPlusPlus <https://mobilepki.org/__WebCryptoPlusPlus>
>             <https://mobilepki.org/__WebCryptoPlusPlus <https://mobilepki.org/WebCryptoPlusPlus>>
>
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Received on Tuesday, 28 October 2014 09:52:05 UTC