Re: [minutes] 2014-09-05 Webizen task force meeting

On 9/5/2014 2:59 PM, Timothy Holborn wrote:
> Is the audio recorded?
>
> Some of the short-hand doesn't seem to capture the convo (note to self; help scribe...)
sorry, I'm not very good with scribing!

Veronica
>
> Thankyou again all...
>
> Timh,
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 6 Sep 2014, at 4:50 am, "Coralie Mercier" <coralie@w3.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Today's teleconference minutes are at:
>>   https://www.w3.org/2014/09/05-webizen-minutes.html
>>
>> Text snapshot:
>> --------------
>>                    Webizen Task Force teleconference
>>                            05 Sep 2014
>>
>>    [2]Agenda
>>       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webizen/2014Sep/0006.html
>>    See also: [3]IRC log
>>       [3] http://www.w3.org/2014/09/05-webizen-irc
>>
>> Attendees
>>    Present
>>           Veronica Thom, Coralie Mercier (koalie), Tim Holborn
>>           (mediaprophet), Jeff Jaffe, Michiel Leenaars, Brian
>>           Kardell, Armin Haller, Olle Olsson, Virginie Galindo
>>    Regrets
>>           Ann Bassetti, Georg Rehm
>>    Chair
>>           Jeff Jaffe
>>    Scribe
>>           koalie, veronica
>>
>>      __________________________________________________________
>>
>>    <koaliie> [6]Previous (2014-08-20)
>>
>>       [6] http://www.w3.org/2014/08/20-webizen-minutes.html
>>
>>    <veronica> hi all
>>
>>    <koalie> scribenick: koalie
>>
>>    <mediaprophet> :)
>>
>>    Jeff: We're into our 3rd or 4th call + had extensive
>>    discussions on the mailing list
>>    ... we had a task force in the spring, presented a proposal to
>>    the Advisory Committee, they rejected it
>>    ... our focus since reboot has been on a survey
>>    ... We made good progress and today is the final review of the
>>    questionnaire
>>    ... intent is to send next Monday, 8-Sep
>>    ... we'll tweet it to 93.4K W3C followers
>>    ... we'll send it to the W3C advisory committee
>>    ... we'll make public mentions of it so not only twitter users
>>    can take it
>>    ... survey will last 3 weeks
>>    ... the week of the 29-Sep we'll have another TF teleconference
>>    ... to review the results and finalise the structure of the
>>    program
>>    ... in order to present at the next AC meeting the week of
>>    October 27
>>    ... let's go to the survey
>>
>>    <koaliie> [7]draft Webizen Program interest survey
>>
>>       [7] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/webizen-survey/
>>
>>    Jeff: go to the survey, please
>>    ... we took mostly what was in the wiki
>>    ... I prefer that people look at the instrument itself
>>    ... so you see the actual survey rather than the outline in the
>>    wiki
>>
>>    Tim: How are you reflecting in the intro that W3C is changing
>>    as the world evolves?
>>    ... side and ideology, v-a-v HTML, also accelerating
>>    participation (cf. actions with IGF)
>>
>>    Jeff: Our focus on industry is a way, Community Groups is
>>    another; we're changing in so many ways, I didn't want to lose
>>    my audience is a too long manifesto
>>    ... if you have suggestions, after reading the prologue,
>>    please, send them.
>>
>>    Michiel: I'm reading this as though it were written for a 4th
>>    grader
>>    ... positioning is very abstract
>>    ... it wouldn't appeal
>>
>>    Jeff: Currently, what we're trying to do with that, if you look
>>    at the bottom of the prologue, there is a link to the goals of
>>    the program which are a bit more specific
>>    ... to your point, I'm not an expert in either writing or
>>    creating surveys
>>    ... So I'd love to get more input from people
>>
>>    [Virginie joins]
>>
>>    Jeff: We could provide in the survey a link to a longer
>>    description
>>
>>    Michiel: Can we skip the questions if you don't reply yes?
>>
>>    Jeff: No, unfortunately, that is a known limitation of the
>>    instrument
>>
>>    Tim: [question was about whether the introduction of the
>>    program, provides a review function that allows it to be
>>    reviewed, refined, and improved once the program has developed
>>    (and obtains take-up, etc.)]
>>
>>    Jeff: That's my intention, it's not overly explicit
>>    ... In question 5, one of the answers, the 2nd, that's a
>>    somewhat weak example which reflects what you're requesting
>>
>>    Jeff: I don't know if there is a place where we should make
>>    this stronger in the wiki or survey
>>    ... to show we're on the same page
>>
>>    <michiell> I think all the yes/no questions can go away
>>
>>    <michiell> For instance question 8 could be deleted if question
>>    9 has a option 'no tangible benefits' at the end
>>
>>    <michiell> That would reduce the amount of questions
>>
>>    Tim: how many languages is this survey being offered in?
>>
>>    Coralie: English; I could provide French translation
>>
>>    Coralie: but then, why not other languages? how long would that
>>    delay opening the survey?
>>
>>    Tim: It's worth thinking about it
>>
>>    Jeff: Great idea
>>    ... Coralie how long would it take?
>>
>>    Coralie: Probably a day or so
>>
>>    Jeff: I'm happy to delay this a day or two to give the option
>>    for people to fill out the survey in their own language
>>    ... we could translate in 20 languages or so
>>
>>    <virginie> could help Koalie reading french translation, once
>>    done
>>
>>    Coralie: note: English is the work language of the W3C
>>
>>    Tim: there is a demand, still
>>
>>    <mediaprophet> +1
>>
>>    <scribe> ACTION: Coralie to get survey, once final, translated
>>    in W3C Offices languages [recorded in
>>    [8]http://www.w3.org/2014/09/05-webizen-minutes.html#action01]
>>
>>    Jeff: there is nothing technical in the survey and foreign
>>    people are more used to technical English
>>    ... A non-technical survey might benefit from being
>>    multi-lingual
>>
>>    <mediaprophet> +1
>>
>>    Jeff: it also signals to the world that we're taking extra
>>    steps to be inclusive
>>    ... a couple-day delay is fine
>>
>>    Virginie: I wanted to check when the finalization of the survey
>>    takes place, when is it frozen?
>>
>>    Jeff: We plan to complete and freeze the survey in today's
>>    meeting
>>    ... and run survey from sep 8-29
>>
>>    Jeff: with translations, this slips a bit.
>>
>>    <scribe> scribenick: veronica
>>
>>    armin: I have a question about #7
>>    ... unique member id #, maybe extend with uri or url
>>    ... could be more clear for people
>>
>>    <ahaller2> Armin: Listing your profile on the W3C website and
>>    Name listed on our Supporters page (with # years) seem to be
>>    similar for people. Maybe we can combine them to one answer.
>>
>>    jeff: q7 are radio buttons
>>    ... and you will be able to type multiple
>>    ... there is a bug with q7
>>
>>    jeff: should allow multiple selection
>>
>>    koalie: I'll fix this
>>
>>    jeff: and q9
>>    ... this is a fantastic beta team!
>>
>>    tim: with 9, maybe keep it simple, way to provide suggestions
>>
>>    jeff: we thought about that
>>    ... problem is unless we get hundreds of people answering the
>>    survey, we won't have critical mass
>>
>>    <ahaller2> +1 for other suggestions
>>
>>    tim: how about using some kind of tags?
>>
>>    jeff: yes, that's a technological solution
>>    ... if I'm the first one and everyone sees my ideas, but if I'm
>>    the last one, no one sees my ideas
>>    ... at the moment I'm just trying to get this off the ground
>>
>>    tim: accepted
>>
>>    jeff: so far lots of great comments
>>
>>    brianK: there was a proposal, not the best but not bad
>>    ... general consensus
>>    ... not very clear, wishy washy
>>    ... so that's where we are right now?
>>
>>    jeff: which proposal?
>>
>>    <michiell> I've just sent an alternative introduction to the
>>    mailing list.
>>
>>    <michiell> I think the 100 dollar should be part of the
>>    questionnaire
>>
>>    brian: basically an electoral proposal, $100 annual fee
>>
>>    jeff: that proposal - wanting more, less - was rejected by AC
>>
>>    briank: that's what I meant
>>    ... now soul searching what this should be
>>    ... sent some comments in email
>>    ... wondering are we definitely saying this has to be a
>>    membership program that requires a fee?
>>
>>    jeff: this goes back to our first [rebooted] task force meeting
>>
>>    <jeff> [9]https://www.w3.org/wiki/Webizen#Success_criteria
>>
>>       [9] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Webizen#Success_criteria
>>
>>    jeff: at beginning of our task force mtg, we populated the wiki
>>    ... one of success criteria was don't lose money
>>
>>    <michiell> For me 'don't loose money' is not the main criterium
>>
>>    jeff: nice that you're doing this, but u could end up with
>>    program with lots of people requiring some support
>>    ... could be it $50, $100; that's also reason for survey
>>    ... just a starting point
>>    ... so that's where we're at now
>>    ... doesn't have to be W3C creating grassroots as [brian]
>>    mentioned in his posts
>>
>>    tim: q9, whether someone in affluent country supporting the
>>    cost
>>    ... developing countries lower cost?
>>
>>    jeff: in prologue, we recognize there could be need for dif
>>    levels of fees
>>
>>    tim: other question about students
>>    ... some can afford the fee; and the internet society?
>>
>>    [Coralie leaves for another meeting]
>>
>>    jeff: this is already a heavy weight survey
>>    ... don't want to complicate it more
>>
>>    brian: wish we had a more passive way to collect this
>>    information
>>
>>    brian: barrier to entry to participate in the survey
>>
>>    michiel: i sent alternative introduction in email
>>
>>    <ahaller2> +1 for open end question!
>>
>>    michiel: we can ask some people if $100 is ok, but it's a
>>    random statement
>>    ... someone mentioned internet society
>>    ... to have everyone pay may not be necessary
>>    ... if u price the wrong way, nobody will join
>>
>>    jeff: question is how do we determine what is the median of
>>    what people would pay
>>    ... buyer wants to spend as little as possible
>>
>>    michiel: if they want to support the open web, what are you
>>    willing to donate to be involved
>>    ... people donate $ because they care and want to see things
>>    happen
>>
>>    jeff: we currently have the supporters program but no one is
>>    contributing
>>    ... so I agree token is probably wrong word
>>    ... nor accessible
>>    ... what is the right word?
>>
>>    tim: sustainable?
>>
>>    brian: realistic?
>>
>>    jeff: how about basic fee?
>>
>>    <ahaller2> Armin: what about leaving the word out completely
>>
>>    jeff: let's go with 'basic' fee vs token
>>
>>    <ahaller2> ... just fee
>>
>>    tim: if asking what they'll pay, need to know where they're
>>    from, and their local currency
>>
>>    jeff: could people type here what they'd be willing to pay for
>>    this?
>>
>>    <michiell> 45 euro
>>
>>    <mediaprophet> $150 AUD
>>
>>    <mediaprophet> ~
>>
>>    <ahaller2> $120
>>
>>    <jeff> $1000
>>
>>    <virginie> 50 euros
>>
>>    <olleo> 50 euros
>>
>>    <bkardell_> Unanswerable, depends what it is :-)
>>
>>    <mediaprophet> if i was really poor - ~75 - but it’s less than
>>    the cost of a certificate...
>>
>>    5,000,000 jpy
>>
>>    jeff: okay, interesting
>>
>>    tim: still important is culture
>>    ... not as commercial as other fields?
>>    ... engagement protocol sets foundation for how this happens
>>
>>    jeff: good point
>>    ... after the AC rejected the June proposal, I was skeptical
>>    ... how to make this to not lose money, make it acceptable to
>>    AC
>>    ... culture is important
>>    ... winning proposal could be what's in brian's blog post
>>    ... for now, let's go ahead with the survey
>>
>>    <michiell> We can ask the question about money and let them
>>    answer in local currency
>>
>>    <mediaprophet> is this the proposal discussed?
>>    [10]https://medium.com/@briankardell/web-standards-we-want-part
>>    -i-chapters-ca71985bf914
>>
>>      [10] https://medium.com/@briankardell/web-standards-we-want-part-i-chapters-ca71985bf914
>>
>>    jeff: if this one dies then we may try a third time
>>
>>    tim: I think this it incredibly important work and I support
>>    this
>>
>>    brian: I would like to make an observation
>>    ... perhaps a radical sugestion
>>    ... while there are lots of interesting points, whatever level
>>    of pricing
>>    ... we don't know what this will look like
>>    ... I feel like that's one of the things AC will reject
>>    ... long survey might not get us the information
>>    ... what about couple of concrete proposals and then survey
>>    which one on thos proposals do you like
>>
>>    <michiell> Two or three scenario's - which one is the webizen
>>    you want
>>
>>    brian: too much choice is overwhelming
>>    ... if you tell people $100, might complain but they pay and
>>    they'll be happy
>>
>>    <virginie> I feel this idea to offer 3 nice stories is a good
>>    suggestion
>>
>>    brian: can we narrow it down more?
>>
>>    jeff: so Brian, this may surprise you
>>    ... I believe I've done this
>>    ... look at q3, I anticipate most would select 'it would
>>    depend'
>>
>>    <virginie> I think that what bk is expecting is complete
>>    package description
>>
>>    jeff: when we correlate the information, it will give us the
>>    options
>>
>>    brian: logging into survey, there's many more questions
>>
>>    armin: comment on payment
>>    ... for the cost, stress that even if the program is free it
>>    will make participation stronger
>>    ... if people are joining as indiv in free program, get more
>>    ... agree with brian's freeform survey
>>    ... get comments, ability to express opinions
>>
>>    jeff: agree, we should add question at end for their own
>>    perspective on this program
>>    ... ideas you may have
>>
>>    virginie: wanted to highlight brian's suggestion
>>    ... could be complementary to survey
>>    ... could be additional question
>>    ... which one of 3 options would you prefer
>>    ... could be redundant but could be interesting
>>    ... maybe classifying 3 scenarios
>>    ... e.g.25 equival dollars, u get ...
>>
>>    <michiell> And you can actually implement more than one in the
>>    end
>>
>>    virginie: happy to work on some words for these scenarios
>>
>>    jeff: sure, but I don't know if we'll get consensus of the
>>    right scenarios quickly
>>
>>    tim: who cares about the merchandising?
>>
>>    <michiell> I don't think there is a W3C shop?
>>
>>    tim: are people going to join just to be part of W3C versus
>>    joining for merchandise
>>    ... social media, at the moment, there are 125 followers
>>    ... gauge how many people are attaching to the concept?
>>    ... 120 followers on twitter tag
>>
>>    jeff: I don't know what people are going to be interested in
>>    ... I'd rather ask them rather than assume
>>
>>    tim: who's working on promotion on twitter?
>>
>>    jeff: Coralie is handling this. contact her.
>>
>>    michiel: i think merchandise important; why not separate this
>>    ... a merchandise shop
>>
>>    jeff: might be possible
>>
>>    michiell: some people want to be involved, some just want
>>    merchandise
>>
>>    jeff: thanks everyone for input. some changes may be small but
>>    are important
>>    ... translating is huge idea and will take a little time
>>    ... I'll schedule call week of 29 Sep
>>    ... by then we'll see results
>>    ... based on partic and results, we'll see if we have a program
>>    of if we're back to square 1
>>    ... please tell everyone to answer the survey!
>>
>>    <virginie> thanks !
>>
>>    jeff: thanks everyone for your participation today!
>>
>>    <ahaller2> bye
>>
>> Summary of Action Items
>>
>>    [NEW] ACTION: Coralie to get survey, once final, translated in
>>    W3C Offices languages [recorded in
>>    [11]http://www.w3.org/2014/09/05-webizen-minutes.html#action01]
>>
>>    [End of minutes]
>>      __________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [12]scribe.perl version
>>     1.138 ([13]CVS log)
>>     $Date: 2014-09-05 18:46:35 $
>>
>>      [12] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
>>      [13] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Coralie Mercier  -  W3C Communications Team  -  http://www.w3.org
>> mailto:coralie@w3.org +336 4322 0001 http://www.w3.org/People/CMercier/
>>

Received on Friday, 5 September 2014 19:01:34 UTC