- From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
- Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 11:26:02 -0500
- To: Nathan Rixham <nathan@webr3.org>
- Cc: public-webid <public-webid@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <29f80f9e-6385-41ae-89be-27072cb7a57a@openlinksw.com>
On 1/4/24 10:44 AM, Nathan Rixham wrote:
> > A WebID is a URI with an HTTP or HTTPS scheme which denotes an Agent
> (Person, Organization, Group, Device, etc.) unambiguously.
>
> To denote an Agent unambiguously, it would have to define that the
> thing is an Agent, and not a pipe, no?
Yes, of course. That kind of qualification is achievable in natural
language prose and/or machine-computable forms.
Machine-computable route:
You can use various attribute combinations or a designate class that
encompasses said attribute collection.
A bigger problem:
As I've stated already, if the notion of a WebID was introduced as part
of a Profile Document spec, in the very worst case we would simply have
specs for the Turtle and JSON-LD profile document types. Why? Due to the
combined effects of usage context and loose-coupling of the notion of a
WebID and its associated Profile document(s).
We are now looping on these subtleties because of conflation problems
that crept into the spec from the onset i.e., hard-wiring to Turtle.
Kingsley
>
> On Thu, 4 Jan 2024, 15:35 Kingsley Idehen, <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 1/4/24 7:38 AM, Nathan Rixham wrote:
>> What is the fundamental problem at hand?
>>
>> I see exactly one, which is resolved be the proposed constraint.
>
> This is crux of the matter, as I see and understand it:
>
> WebID
> A WebID is a URI with an HTTP or HTTPS scheme which denotes an
> Agent (Person, Organization, Group, Device, etc.). For WebIDs
> with fragment identifiers (e.g. #me), the URI without the
> fragment denotes the Profile Document. For WebIDs without
> fragment identifiers an HTTP request on the WebID/must/return
> a 303 with a Location header URI referring to the Profile
> Document.
> WebID ProfileorProfile Document
> A WebID Profile is an RDF document which uniquely describes
> the Agent denoted by the WebID in relation to that WebID. The
> server/must/provide a|text/turtle|[turtle
> <https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/identity/#bib-turtle>]
> representation of the requested profile. This document/may/be
> available in other RDF serialization formats, such as RDFa
> [RDFA-CORE
> <https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/identity/#bib-RDFA-CORE>],
> or [RDF-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR
> <https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/identity/#bib-RDF-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR>]
> if so requested through content negotiation.
>
> It tightly couples a WebID to a Turtle-based WebID-Profile
> document, by design.
>
> Unfortunately for everyone, Turtle specificity is a flaw -- even
> more so circa 2024.
>
> What we want is:
>
> WebID
> A WebID is a URI with an HTTP or HTTPS scheme which denotes an
> Agent (Person, Organization, Group, Device, etc.) unambiguously.
> WebID ProfileorProfile Document
> A WebID Profile is an RDF document which uniquely describes an
> Agent denoted by its WebID. The serverpublishing a WebID
> /must/provide at least a|text/turtle|[turtle
> <https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/identity/#bib-turtle>]
> or *application/ld+json [json-ld]* representation of the
> requested profile. This document/may/also be made available in
> other RDF serialization formats, such as RDFa [RDFA-CORE
> <https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/identity/#bib-RDFA-CORE>],
> or [RDF-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR
> <https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/identity/#bib-RDF-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR>]
> if so requested.
>
>
> We can get there via the following routes, as I see it:
>
> 1. Apply PRs to the current spec -- preferred
>
> 2. Fork the current spec, and en route to a doc titled: WebID for
> JSON-LD -- nuclear option
>
> Kingsley
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 4 Jan 2024, 06:06 Kingsley Idehen,
>> <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 1/3/24 7:55 PM, Nathan Rixham wrote:
>>> The "name" field under the "@type": "Person" clearly states
>>> her name as "Beena Ammanath". This is a clear and
>>> unambiguous identification of the person in question.
>>>
>>> "@type": "Person"
>>
>>
>> That isn't in dispute, since you are referring to content
>> that resides in a document i.e., nothing to do with how the
>> aforementioned entity is named.
>>
>> Naming comprises both denotation and connotation. You can't
>> leave out the denotation aspect, which has a lot to do with
>> why this has been thorny for years re HTTP URIs.
>>
>> As I've suggested, we can get out of this quagmire by
>> focusing on the WebID Profile Document oriented specification.
>>
>> IMHO, simply using the term WebID loosely, or mangling it in
>> a recursive acronym (e.g, WebID and Identity Discovery
>> [WebID]) will not solve the fundamental problem at hand.
>>
>> Kingsley
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 4 Jan 2024, 00:17 Kingsley Idehen,
>>> <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/3/24 6:50 PM, Nathan Rixham wrote:
>>> > I would like to propose that any WebID specification
>>> authored by this
>>> > group must provide a testable way to determine that a
>>> WebID denotes an
>>> > Agent.
>>> >
>>> > Baked into that is is the most basic agreement we can
>>> make, that a
>>> > WebID refers to an Agent, and not a pipe.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Nathan,
>>>
>>> I believe you are speaking, more specifically, about any
>>> WebID related
>>> specification where entity relationship type semantics are
>>> machine-computable.
>>>
>>> In the age of LLMs, prose constructed using natural
>>> language is
>>> increasingly machine-computable :)
>>>
>>> Related
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://netid-qa.openlinksw.com:8443/chat/?chat_id=s-J929kamx9sxLCMCSR4QpUsueqXQHjd3MMyVr5P1Vi4pn
>>>
>>> -- machine-computable profile data explorations, in the
>>> age of LLMs
>>>
>>> --
>>> Happy New Year!
>>>
>>> Kingsley Idehen
>>> Founder & CEO
>>> OpenLink Software
>>> Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>> Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com
>>> Weblogs (Blogs):
>>> Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
>>> Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
>>> Data Access Drivers Blog:
>>> https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
>>>
>>> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
>>> Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen
>>> Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
>>> http://kidehen.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> Profile Pages:
>>> Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
>>> Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen
>>> Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>>
>>> Web Identities (WebID):
>>> Personal:
>>> http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
>>> :
>>> http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen
>> Founder & CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Home Page:http://www.openlinksw.com
>> Community Support:https://community.openlinksw.com
>> Weblogs (Blogs):
>> Company Blog:https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
>> Virtuoso Blog:https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
>> Data Access Drivers Blog:https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
>>
>> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
>> Medium Blog:https://medium.com/@kidehen
>> Legacy Blogs:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
>> http://kidehen.blogspot.com
>>
>> Profile Pages:
>> Pinterest:https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
>> Quora:https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
>> Twitter:https://twitter.com/kidehen
>> Google+:https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
>> LinkedIn:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>
>> Web Identities (WebID):
>> Personal:http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
>> :http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
>>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen
> Founder & CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Home Page:http://www.openlinksw.com
> Community Support:https://community.openlinksw.com
> Weblogs (Blogs):
> Company Blog:https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
> Virtuoso Blog:https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
> Data Access Drivers Blog:https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
>
> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
> Medium Blog:https://medium.com/@kidehen
> Legacy Blogs:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
> http://kidehen.blogspot.com
>
> Profile Pages:
> Pinterest:https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
> Quora:https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
> Twitter:https://twitter.com/kidehen
> Google+:https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
> LinkedIn:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>
> Web Identities (WebID):
> Personal:http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
> :http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
>
--
Regards,
Kingsley Idehen
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Home Page:http://www.openlinksw.com
Community Support:https://community.openlinksw.com
Weblogs (Blogs):
Company Blog:https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
Virtuoso Blog:https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
Data Access Drivers Blog:https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
Medium Blog:https://medium.com/@kidehen
Legacy Blogs:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
http://kidehen.blogspot.com
Profile Pages:
Pinterest:https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
Quora:https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
Twitter:https://twitter.com/kidehen
Google+:https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
LinkedIn:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
Web Identities (WebID):
Personal:http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
:http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
Received on Thursday, 4 January 2024 16:26:11 UTC