- From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
- Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 08:54:56 -0400
- To: eric@alexandriaconsulting.com
- Cc: Nathan Rixham <nathan@webr3.org>, public-webid <public-webid@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <c9ba530c-90f9-5050-890a-70e333556cda@openlinksw.com>
On 6/27/22 2:41 PM, Eric Jahn wrote:
> I guess this isn't a problem for RDF then,
> RDF 1.1 should then just refer to NetID.
>
> Eric Jahn
> CTO/Data Architect
> Alexandria Consulting LLC
> St. Petersburg, Florida
> 727.537.9474
> alexandriaconsulting.com <http://alexandriaconsulting.com>
> WebID <https://alexandriaconsulting.com/files/eric_jahn.rdf#me>
If you mean WebID without the current issues is basically NetID, then yes.
Issues being:
1. IRIs rather than URIs
2. Protocol independence rather than HTTP-specificity (despite the
ubiquity benefits re on-boarding and bootstrap) regarding resolvable
identifiers
Rather than being stuck with the WebID spec it might be time to fork it
and then fix using a more agile mechanism etc.. I say this because its
increasingly clear to me (and others) that this is the only viable way
forward.
Personally, I don't have the bandwidth for spec formalization, but I
happy to assist folks that want to take this forward.
Kingsley
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 2:39 PM Kingsley Idehen
> <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>
> On 6/27/22 2:13 PM, Nathan Rixham wrote:
>> I guess WebID can be any... Something used in WebID-TLS may need
>> to be http(s).
>
> Hi Nathan,
>
> Not according to the WebID spec which is pegged to HTTP,
> unfortunately.
>
> As I am sure you know, HTTP specificity arose as an on-boarding
> tactic based on its ubiquity.
>
> Kingsley
>
>>
>> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022, 19:11 Eric Jahn,
>> <eric@alexandriaconsulting.com> wrote:
>>
>> Why does it have to be an HTTP IRI? Why not, just an IRI (any
>> protocol)?
>>
>> Eric Jahn
>> CTO/Data Architect
>> Alexandria Consulting LLC
>> St. Petersburg, Florida
>> 727.537.9474
>> alexandriaconsulting.com <http://alexandriaconsulting.com>
>> WebID <https://alexandriaconsulting.com/files/eric_jahn.rdf#me>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 1:22 PM Kingsley Idehen
>> <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 6/27/22 10:52 AM, Pat McBennett wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I just wanted to first ask if anyone here knew of any
>>> existing discussions at all (either here in this mailing
>>> list (as I can't find anything directly relevant when I
>>> search this list for 'IRI'), or anywhere else public) on
>>> updating the current statement in the draft spec
>>> [1] (i.e., ""A WebID is an HTTP URI") to use the term
>>> IRI instead of URI?
>>>
>>> (Note: I'm very deliberately not even mentioning the
>>> term HTTP in that definition - as that is a completely
>>> separate discussion point (i.e., getting into DIDs and
>>> IPFS, etc.))
>>>
>>> I don't pretend to know the history behind efforts to
>>> definitively define what an IRI is - but I understand
>>> that IETF 3987 [2] never actually became an
>>> official standard (or did it?).
>>>
>>> I understand that the whole area of clearly defining
>>> what we mean by URL, URI, or IRI is probably still a
>>> mess. This was brilliantly articulated back in 2016 in
>>> this blog entry [3] by the maintainer of cURL (Daniel
>>> Stenberg): "Not even curl follows any published spec
>>> very closely these days...There’s no unified URL
>>> standard and there’s no work in progress towards that. I
>>> don’t count WHATWG’s spec as a real effort either".
>>>
>>> The reason I ask this question at all is because the RDF
>>> 1.1 Concepts and Abstract Syntax makes it explicitly
>>> clear that all identifiers in RDF are IRIs (as defined
>>> by IETF 3987, so whether that is an official standard or
>>> not), and it's clear from section "3.2 IRIs" that the
>>> reason for RDF explicitly stating the use of IETF 3987
>>> IRIs over URIs is:
>>> "IRIs are a generalization of URIs [RFC3986] that
>>> permits a wider range of Unicode characters."
>>>
>>> Therefore I interpret that as saying that RDF mandates
>>> IRIs so as to be as inclusive as possible of character
>>> sets to allow people from all around the world to use
>>> their native languages to mint identifiers. (Seems like
>>> quite a laudable intent to me!)
>>>
>>> So my question, simply re-stated, is: has anyone
>>> discussed the idea of mandating WebIDs be IRIs too, for
>>> the same reason - i.e., to explicitly be as inclusive as
>>> possible of global character sets?
>>>
>>> (Seems to me like WebID has *even more* reason to be
>>> explicitly inclusive of character sets for identifiers
>>> than RDF even, since WebIDs are expressly intended to
>>> identify people (as well as organizations, and IoT
>>> devices, and 'agents', etc.))
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Pat.
>>>
>>> 1 -
>>> https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/identity/#:~:text=a%20given%20Server.-,WebID,A%20WebID%20is%20a%20URI%20with%20an%20HTTP%20or%20HTTPS%20scheme,-which%20denotes%20an
>>> 2 - https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3987.txt
>>> 3 -
>>> https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2016/05/11/my-url-isnt-your-url/
>>>
>>> *Pat McBennett*, Technical Architect
>>>
>>> Contact | patm@inrupt.com
>>>
>>> Connect | WebID
>>> <http://pmcb55.inrupt.net/profile/card#me>, GitHub
>>> <https://github.com/pmcb55>
>>>
>>> Explore | www.inrupt.com <http://www.inrupt.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended
>>> only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may
>>> contain legally privileged, confidential and/or
>>> proprietary information. If you are not the intended
>>> recipient of this e-mail (or the person responsible for
>>> delivering this document to the intended recipient),
>>> please do not disseminate, distribute, print or copy
>>> this e-mail, or any attachment thereto. If you have
>>> received this e-mail in error, please respond to the
>>> individual sending the message, and permanently delete
>>> the email.
>>
>>
>> Hi Pat,
>>
>> Long story short, your point is valid.
>>
>> Challenge:
>>
>> Evolving the WebID spec is fundamentally difficult, IMHO.
>>
>> A WebID should be an HTTP IRI that denotes an Agent.
>>
>> How that becomes part of the spec is a completely
>> different matter :(
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen
>> Founder & CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Home Page:http://www.openlinksw.com
>> Community Support:https://community.openlinksw.com
>> Weblogs (Blogs):
>> Company Blog:https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
>> Virtuoso Blog:https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
>> Data Access Drivers Blog:https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
>>
>> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
>> Medium Blog:https://medium.com/@kidehen
>> Legacy Blogs:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
>> http://kidehen.blogspot.com
>>
>> Profile Pages:
>> Pinterest:https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
>> Quora:https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
>> Twitter:https://twitter.com/kidehen
>> Google+:https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
>> LinkedIn:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>
>> Web Identities (WebID):
>> Personal:http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
>> :http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
>>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen
> Founder & CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Home Page:http://www.openlinksw.com
> Community Support:https://community.openlinksw.com
> Weblogs (Blogs):
> Company Blog:https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
> Virtuoso Blog:https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
> Data Access Drivers Blog:https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
>
> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
> Medium Blog:https://medium.com/@kidehen
> Legacy Blogs:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
> http://kidehen.blogspot.com
>
> Profile Pages:
> Pinterest:https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
> Quora:https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
> Twitter:https://twitter.com/kidehen
> Google+:https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
> LinkedIn:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>
> Web Identities (WebID):
> Personal:http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
> :http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
>
--
Regards,
Kingsley Idehen
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Home Page:http://www.openlinksw.com
Community Support:https://community.openlinksw.com
Weblogs (Blogs):
Company Blog:https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
Virtuoso Blog:https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
Data Access Drivers Blog:https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
Medium Blog:https://medium.com/@kidehen
Legacy Blogs:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
http://kidehen.blogspot.com
Profile Pages:
Pinterest:https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
Quora:https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
Twitter:https://twitter.com/kidehen
Google+:https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
LinkedIn:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
Web Identities (WebID):
Personal:http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
:http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
Received on Tuesday, 28 June 2022 12:55:16 UTC