W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webid@w3.org > November 2014

Re: Simple Page-Owner Token (SPOT) Authentication

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:46:24 -0500
Message-ID: <546CE580.1090301@openlinksw.com>
To: public-webid@w3.org
On 11/19/14 8:33 AM, Mo McRoberts wrote:
> We use TLS CCA within the BBC for access to production services and tools. Thousands upon thousands of people use them regularly. I'm an issuer for third parties who've signed NDAs to get certs, so I also have to deal with them when they get unstuck. I can tell you absolutely categorically that the CCA user experience *is* universally terrible, especially around cert/key management. I know this not because I'm jumping to conclusions on behalf of end-users, but because I have to support the end-users who are using CCA.
>
> M.

We also work with lots of users, since attribute-based-access controls 
permeate of our Virtuoso and ODS products. I've even used certs issued 
by the BBC in the past. My fundamental point is that the UI/UX pains are 
alleviated when there is understanding on the part of end-users.

Users are the ones that will ultimately encourage browser vendors to 
improve upon existing implementations. It always works that way, in 
situation like this.

Kingsley
>
>> On  2014-Nov-19, at 13:16, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/18/14 9:42 PM, Sandro Hawke wrote:
>>> On 11/12/2014 01:01 AM, Anders Rundgren wrote:
>>>> On 2014-11-12 05:36, Sandro Hawke wrote:
>>>>> On 11/10/2014 06:39 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>>>>>> Just wanted to highlight this interesting work from sandro
>>>>> Thanks.   I should say the design came out of discussions with Andrei Sambra,
>>>>> trying to avoid the problems with poor browser support of client certificates.
>>>> Sandro, that's a very interesting statement since the W3C is just about to launch
>>>> a continuation of WebCrypto which indeed may be focused on certificates and browsers!
>>>>
>>> I'm just speaking for myself as a user and software developer; I'm not involved in that W3C work.  My feeling is the UX is terrible. My understanding is the only people who ever use it are people without a choice, like enterprise employees and university students.  What fraction of consumer websites use client certs for user authentication?   I've never seen one.   I think that's because the UX is so bad.
>>>
>>>       -- Sandro
>> Sandro,
>>
>> If users are clueless about what they are doing, no amount of UX + UI will solve that. This issue isn't just about browser implementations, its about the combined effects of understanding (on the parts of users and app developers), UX, and UI.
>>
>> Focusing on the "UI/UX is bad" narrative will not fix anything. Which is akin to the "RDF tools are bad" narrative.
>>
>> Why don't we try a little harder in regards to exploiting the pinhole that TLS CCA offers? We've done that, and had success [1].
>>
>> Users don't have a major problem with TLS CCA once they understand what's happening. Like many things (in my experience) its developers that are once again jumping to their own conclusions on behalf of end-users.
>>
>>
>> [1] http://youid.openlinksw.com -- Certificate Generator that produces Certs that make TLS CCA interactions easier to understand (New HTML version will soon be released) .
>>
>> -- 
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen	
>> Founder & CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>> Personal Weblog 1: http://kidehen.blogspot.com
>> Personal Weblog 2: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>> Twitter Profile: https://twitter.com/kidehen
>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>> Personal WebID: http://kingsley.idehen.net/dataspace/person/kidehen#this
>>
>>
>


-- 
Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog 1: http://kidehen.blogspot.com
Personal Weblog 2: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter Profile: https://twitter.com/kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
Personal WebID: http://kingsley.idehen.net/dataspace/person/kidehen#this




Received on Wednesday, 19 November 2014 18:46:48 UTC

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