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Re: Browser UI & privacy - a discussion with Ben Laurie

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 07:58:10 -0400
Message-ID: <506ECB52.8050500@openlinksw.com>
To: Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>
CC: Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com>, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>, Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net>, "public-webid@w3.org" <public-webid@w3.org>, public-identity@w3.org, "public-philoweb@w3.org" <public-philoweb@w3.org>, Ben Laurie <benl@google.com>
On 10/5/12 3:08 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote:
> Dick,
> you have to see this from a computer science perspective.
> Think about a relational database system. You have one or more tables in each database with columns. The columns represent the attributes that are stored about you. Rows are specific instances (values) for these attributes.
> Different systems (with their databases) store different data about you. Even though there is from a philosophical point of you only one Dick Hardt each of these system only see a small subset of the attributes of you.
> The index, the unique key, is the identifier and is (of course) an attribute itself. This makes the crisp separation of identity and identifier somewhat difficult.

Only because you are using an extensional system for your example. The 
identifier in your example is an extension of the data that makes the 
record. An intensional system wouldn't have such a limitation which is 
basically what graph / object model DBMS engines bring to the table. 
This is what Object Identity [1] in the object manifesto of yore was all 

>   Of course there may be more than one key that identifies you within that system. Hence, sharing the attributes with other parties may then allow them to uniquely identify you (with a certain probability) even though you never disclosed the unique key.
> Hope that this makes sense.

Yes, but within confines of an extensional system. In an intensional 
system every record is a proposition. Basically, this is the model upon 
that drives the Semantic Web, Linked Data, and  WebID.



> Ciao
> Hannes
> On Oct 4, 2012, at 8:26 PM, Dick Hardt wrote:
>>  a somewhat tangential comment.
>> On Oct 4, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>    $ Identifier:   A data object that represents a specific identity of
>>>       a protocol entity or individual.  See [RFC4949].
>>> Example: a NAI is an identifier
>> Easy to  agree to.
>>>    $ Identity:   Any subset of an individual's attributes that
>>>       identifies the individual within a given context.  Individuals
>>>       usually have multiple identities for use in different contexts.
>>> Example: the stuff you have at your Facebook account
>> Not so easy to agree to.
>> I would argue that your identity is everything about you, your Facebook data being part of your identity. Saying I have multiple identities is confusing. There is only one of me. Any slicing becomes challenging as there are no sharp lines between who I am on Facebook, Twitter, Google+ or LinkedIn. There is lots of overlap.
>> -- Dick



Kingsley Idehen	
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Received on Friday, 5 October 2012 11:58:36 UTC

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