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Draft minutes: 19 July 2011 call

From: Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:59:25 -0400
Message-ID: <4E25A9DD.3010308@nokia.com>
To: "public-webevents@w3.org" <public-webevents@w3.org>
The draft minutes from the July 19 voice conference are available at the 
following and copied below:

   http://www.w3.org/2011/07/19-webevents-minutes.html

WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send 
them to the public-webevents mail list before July 26 (the next voice 
conference); otherwise these minutes will be considered Approved as is.

-Art Barstow

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                     Web Events WG Voice Conference

19 Jul 2011

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/0003.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/07/19-webevents-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Art_Barstow, Matt_Brubeck, Olli_Pettay, Sangwhan_Moon,
           Cathy_Chan, Doug_Schepers

    Regrets
    Chair
           Art

    Scribe
           Art

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Tweak Agenda
          2. [6]Announcements
          3. [7]Issue-3: Click event target after DOM mutation during
             touchstart;
          4. [8]FF Beta of Touch Events
          5. [9]Issue-16: Should the spec be silent or prescriptive re
             Object Identity
          6. [10]Issue-17: Page X and Y parameters to createTouch
          7. [11]Issue-18: The spec needs more examples related to the
             various lists
          8. [12]Preparing Touch Events v1 spec for Last Call WD
          9. [13]Any other Business
      * [14]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB

<scribe> Scribe: Art

    Date: 19 July 2011

<smaug> but Zakim bridge does say anything..

<smaug> I've always called to us number

Tweak Agenda

    AB: I submitted the draft agenda yesterday (
    [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/
    0003.html ). It is the same agenda as the June 28 draft agenda and
    that meeting was canceled.
    ... without Laszlo nor Doug, we will probably skip their issues i.e.
    Issue-16 and Issue-17
    ... any change requests?

      [15] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/0003.html

Announcements

    AB: Any short announcements?

<mbrubeck>
    [16]https://market.android.com/details?id=org.mozilla.firefox_beta
    supports touch events

      [16] https://market.android.com/details?id=org.mozilla.firefox_beta

    MB: FF beta on Android now supports Touch Events

    AB: great news Matt!

Issue-3: Click event target after DOM mutation during touchstart;

    AB: Issue-3 ( [17]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/3 )
    has Action-52 for Matt (
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/52 ). We last
    discussed this on June 14 (
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/14-webevents-minutes.html#item03 ).

      [17] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/3
      [18] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/52
      [19] http://www.w3.org/2011/06/14-webevents-minutes.html#item03

    MB: I think we have consensus on this
    ... I just need to write the text
    ... and then send it for review

    AB: is that on target for this week?

    MB: yes

    AB: so after you check in a change, will you notify the group?

    MB: yes

FF Beta of Touch Events

    DS: what is supported?

    MB: supports most of the attributes
    ... does not support touchleave and touchenter
    ... supports identifiedTouch method
    ... think it is the first browser to support that

<mbrubeck> The current version tracks only a single touch point at a
    time; multitouch will come later.

    DS: what about touch area?
    ... it doesn't support that?

    MB: that's correct we don't support that
    ... but we intend to support it

Issue-16: Should the spec be silent or prescriptive re Object Identity

    AB: Issue-16 ( [20]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/16
    ) has Action-53 for Doug (
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/53 ). We last
    discussed this on June 14 (
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/14-webevents-minutes.html#item04 ).
    ... Doug, what's the status?

      [20] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/16
      [21] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/53
      [22] http://www.w3.org/2011/06/14-webevents-minutes.html#item04

    DS: I thought someone else agreed to take this
    ... I will submit something today

    AB: ok; great

Issue-17: Page X and Y parameters to createTouch

    AB: Issue-17 ( [23]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/17
    ) has Action-55 for Laszlo (
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/55 ). We last
    discussed this on June 14 (
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/14-webevents-minutes.html#item05 ).
    ... but Laszlo isn't here today
    ... so we should probably skip it
    ... All: Do we feel this must be addressed in v1 i.e. block Last
    Call Working Draft?
    ... broadly speaking, this issue is about WebKit compatibility.
    However, when I looked at the minutes, the specific sub-issues are
    unclear, possibly because the title of Issue-17 isn't quite right.
    ... which Interface and method(s) is this about?
    TouchEvent.initTouchEvent() and/or DocumentTouch.createTouch()?
    ... which parameter sets are we unsure about pageX/Y, clientX/Y,
    screenX/Y?

      [23] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/17
      [24] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/55
      [25] http://www.w3.org/2011/06/14-webevents-minutes.html#item05

    MB: there is an issue re webkit diffs with create method

    DS: perhaps we should break it into separate issues

    AB: that's fine with me
    ... what is the first sub issue here?

    MB: the old issue can be closed
    ... the new issue is about parameters to initTouchEvent

<Sangwhan>
    [26]https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-unassigned/2011-May/32
    6134.html

      [26] 
https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-unassigned/2011-May/326134.html

<Sangwhan>
    [27]https://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/WebCore/dom/TouchEvent.idl
    ?rev=52113#L40

      [27] 
https://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/WebCore/dom/TouchEvent.idl?rev=52113#L40

<Sangwhan>
    [28]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/tip/touchevents.html#t
    ouchevent-interface

      [28] 
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/tip/touchevents.html#touchevent-interface

    [ Matt does some research ... ]

    SM: there has been some related discussion on the webkit list

<Sangwhan> [29]https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60612

      [29] https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60612

<mbrubeck> WebKit has screenX/Y and clientX/Y parameters in the
    initTouchEvent method, while the W3C spec does not; how are they
    used, and should they be added to the W3C spec (or removed from
    WebKit)?

<smaug> hmm,
    [30]http://developer.apple.com/library/safari/#documentation/UserExp
    erience/Reference/TouchEventClassReference/TouchEvent/TouchEvent.htm
    l#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40009358 is strange. Apple's touch events
    take all sorts of coordinates as parameters to initToucEvent, but I
    can't see how one can access those values

      [30] 
http://developer.apple.com/library/safari/#documentation/UserExperience/Reference/TouchEventClassReference/TouchEvent/TouchEvent.html

    MB: would be good if we could get those webkit people involved with
    our discussion

    DS: agree

    MB: we can also discuss this in the webkit bug

    AB: my preference would be to discuss this on public-webevents
    ... draft issue title is: align initTouchEvent parameters with
    webkit?

    ISSUE: align initTouchEvent parameters with Webkit

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-19 - Align initTouchEvent parameters with
    Webkit ; please complete additional details at
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/19/edit .

      [31] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/19/edit

    AB: so should we close I-17 then?

    MB: yes, I think the original issue is resolved

    AB: any objections to closing I-17?

    [ None ]

<scribe> ACTION: barstow close Issue-17 with poiner to 19-July-2011
    minutes [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/19-webevents-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-58 - Close Issue-17 with poiner to
    19-July-2011 minutes [on Arthur Barstow - due 2011-07-26].

    AB: is there another issue here?

    MB: no, I think we got it

    DS: agree

Issue-18: The spec needs more examples related to the various lists

    AB: Issue-18 ( [33]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/18
    ) has Action-57 for Sangwhan (
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/57 ). We last
    discussed this on June 21 (
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/21-webevents-minutes.html#item06 ).

      [33] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/18
      [34] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/57
      [35] http://www.w3.org/2011/06/21-webevents-minutes.html#item06

<Sangwhan> [36]http://pastebin.com/D7LUCfev

      [36] http://pastebin.com/D7LUCfev

    SM: I wrote some preliminary stuff
    ... not sure if this is what we want
    ... was focusing on the different lists
    ... I could use some help with example code
    ... and if anyone has suggestions, they would be welcome

    DS: I'm skimming on it

    AB: this seems to be a use case approach
    ... i.e. here's how you do X, here's how you do Z

    SM: yes, that's right

    DS: I think this is good as is

    SM: there are some additional properties I could cover

    DS: for a first example, I think this is fine
    ... we can always add more later

    MB: would like to write a narrative about how events are generated
    if a user uses multi touch

    SM: yes, something like that would be nice
    ... I don't recall any interesting graphics

    DS: there is some precedence for that

    AB: oh, yes, that would be welcome

    SM: ok; then I'll create some more detailed example as Matt
    suggested

    AB: should be encourage SM to checkin what he has?

    DS: yes

    MB: ok

    AB: please do Sangwhan
    ... my proposal is that I close Issue-18 after Sangwhan's checkin
    ... and then any other non-normative examples can be checked in at
    any stage
    ... any objections to closing I-18 after SM's checkin?

    [ None ]

Preparing Touch Events v1 spec for Last Call WD

    AB: Doug has Action-56 "Update the Touch Event spec to use markup to
    facilitate test case extraction" (
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/56 ).
    ... I believe we want this before splitting the spec into v1 and v2

      [37] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/56

    DS: I did some work on this
    ... I spent too much time with ReSpec
    ... we won't publish with Respec scripts active
    ... So I am going to edit it manually without ReSpec javascript
    ... Matt has the action to split the spec into v1 and v2
    ... I apologize for the delay

    MB: I can start on the v1 and v2 split

    DS: not sure about the best way fwd
    ... should I markup the spec before the split?

    MB: if you are ready to start adding testing markup
    ... think it would be easier if that was done before the v1/v2 split

    DS: OK; I will add it this week

    AB: how many are there?

    DS: think there about 40 testable assertions
    ... we can get real granular here
    ... and that can start to rat-hole
    ... Each testable assert will have 1) and ID; and 2) a class that
    says which "Conformance Class" it meets
    ... e.g. UA conformance; Author conformance; etc.
    ... Don't want to mark absolutely everything
    ... and then we can refine the approach as we go
    ... and perhaps be more detailed in v2
    ... has anyone started writing tests?

    MB: we have written some tests
    ... want them to be usable for Touch Events spec
    ... I have checked in some tests already

    SM: we have about 20 tests
    ... they match the spec rather than Webkit impl
    ... expect the WG can use them
    ... but they will need some cleanup first

    AB: so it sound like Doug will have his markup changes by the end of
    this week

    DS: yes, that is my plan

    AB: so my conclusion is that Issue-19 is the only piece of work we
    need to close
    ... and that we are getting close to LC

Any other Business

<Sangwhan> [38]http://www.khronos.org/news/categories/C255

      [38] http://www.khronos.org/news/categories/C255

    SM: the Khronos Group is working on Stream Input
    ... seems to be in line with what we want to do in our High Level
    spec

    AB: I wasn't aware of this work

    SM: I am in contact with the person behind this
    ... he seems to be interested in getting these specs to interoperate
    ... I hope to have some indepth discussions

    DS: this looks related to W3C's MMI work
    ... especially their EMMA spec
    ... which is used for HTML Speech

    OP: EMMA is a container for any speech recognition results

    DS: yes, we should talk to them
    ... especially if it is implemented in browsers

    SM: yes, that's the point
    ... I think they haven't started much
    ... thus the earlier the better

    AB: that's probably another good reason for us to move v1 to LC

    SM: other WG members are involved with this Khronos effort

    DS: agree we don't want fragmentation

<scribe> ACTION: barstow follow-up this Khronos Stream Input work
    [recorded in
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/19-webevents-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-59 - Follow-up this Khronos Stream Input
    work [on Arthur Barstow - due 2011-07-26].

    AB: others should read their doc too

    DS: there is other stream-type work going on at the W3C now
    ... e.g. the WRTC WG

    AB: what about a meeting next week?
    ... plan on a meeting July 26
    ... meeting adjourned

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: barstow close Issue-17 with poiner to 19-July-2011
    minutes [recorded in
    [40]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/19-webevents-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: barstow follow-up this Khronos Stream Input work
    [recorded in
    [41]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/19-webevents-minutes.html#action02]

    [End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 19 July 2011 15:59:57 UTC

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