- From: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren@telia.com>
- Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 21:06:57 +0200
- To: Hutchinson Michael <Michael.Hutchinson@gemalto.com>
- CC: Vijay Bharadwaj <Vijay.Bharadwaj@microsoft.com>, Nick Van den Bleeken <Nick.Van.den.Bleeken@inventivegroup.com>, Aymeric Vitte <vitteaymeric@gmail.com>, Mountie Lee <mountie.lee@mw2.or.kr>, GALINDO Virginie <Virginie.GALINDO@gemalto.com>, "public-webcrypto-comments@w3.org" <public-webcrypto-comments@w3.org>, Harry Halpin <hhalpin@w3.org>
On 2013-05-21 20:43, Hutchinson Michael wrote: Based on the WG-list I think it is fair to say that there's no interest among the _browser_vendors_ for supporting traditional use-cases through Web Crypto. I'm sure some of them will do that anyway but through proprietary solutions since this topic simply fell of the W3C table. Anders > Vijay, > > As the keys belong to the server application; it could be desirable for the server application to "silently" pass the PIN through the WebCrypto API to the UA so they don't have to rely/wait on a user prompt. e.g. CryptSetProvParam(PP_KEYEXCHANGE_PIN | PP_SIGNATURE_PIN) > > Another use case would be for the server application to provide its own PIN entry dialog rather than relying on the UA to do this. e.g. Window logon (Winlogon/LogonUI) > > This would mean a change in the specification to allow the PIN through for private operations. > > This would equally apply to keys on a smart card, in a password-protected software-based KSP, or password-protected keystore. > >> Michael >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Vijay Bharadwaj [mailto:Vijay.Bharadwaj@microsoft.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 4:07 AM >> To: Nick Van den Bleeken >> Cc: Anders Rundgren; Aymeric Vitte; Mountie Lee; GALINDO Virginie; public- >> webcrypto-comments@w3.org; Harry Halpin >> Subject: RE: draft for certificate management >> >> I agree. In that case, wouldn't you say that the current API has support >> for PIN-protected keys? The UA just needs to prompt for the PIN when it >> performs a private key operation. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Nick Van den Bleeken >> [mailto:Nick.Van.den.Bleeken@inventivegroup.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 2:03 AM >> To: Vijay Bharadwaj >> Cc: Anders Rundgren; Aymeric Vitte; Mountie Lee; GALINDO Virginie; public- >> webcrypto-comments@w3.org; Harry Halpin >> Subject: Re: draft for certificate management >> >> >>>> In particular how they intend to use an API that doesn't support PIN- >> code-protected keys which at least in the context of e-banking and e- >> government PKIs is the _de-facto_standard_. >>> What does API support for PINs look like to you? Must it necessarily >> include tools for PIN provisioning and management? Why can't the API just >> prompt the user for PINs inside the private key operation? >> In my opinion it is the responsibility of the API to prompt for the PIN, >> because the application should not have access to the PIN. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Nick Van den Bleeken >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anders Rundgren [mailto:anders.rundgren@telia.com] >>> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 4:22 AM >>> To: Aymeric Vitte >>> Cc: Mountie Lee; GALINDO Virginie; Nick Van den Bleeken; >>> public-webcrypto-comments@w3.org; Harry Halpin >>> Subject: Re: draft for certificate management >>> >>> On 2013-03-29 11:55, Aymeric Vitte wrote: >>>> Maybe I have a too simplistic view of the certificate subject but as >>>> I see it the API should provide tools to create, manage, store >>>> certificates and associated keys based on the WebCrypto API, >>> As far as I can see _all_is_already_there_ if IndexDB can be used to >> hold arbitrary attributes associated with a key including certificates. >>> >>>> then people can build on top of it CMP, EST things if they like and >>>> if web technics allow it securely, the API should support the >> "standard" >>>> enrollment/provisioning procedures (see next sentence). >>> They may be able to do that although it would be pretty pointless since >> they anyway have to provide JS-based bootstrap code and ASN.1 >> encoding/decoding. >>> >>>> Now, as someone else mentionned in another thread, it seems like we >>>> have to read between the lines to know what everybody want, would be >>>> good to have clear scenario of what is required from any interested >> people. >>> In particular how they intend to use an API that doesn't support PIN- >> code-protected keys which at least in the context of e-banking and e- >> government PKIs is the _de-facto_standard_. >>> Since none of the browser-vendors have figured out how to do this in >> their current web-platforms, this brings up the #1 question: >>> _What_ is the target audience? >>> >>> And then we have the hardware security issues... >>> >>> Regards, >>> Anders >>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Le 29/03/2013 09:55, Anders Rundgren a écrit : >>>>> On 2013-03-29 08:49, Mountie Lee wrote: >>>>>> Hi. >>>>>> >>>>>> my timeframe is same what you think. >>>>>> >>>>>> please understand it is more complex than ever I expected. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will try to post draft before F2F. >>>>> I would like to understand why CMP or EST would be suitable >> candidates. >>>>> CMP was designed for advanced RA<-->CA exchanges using statically >> configured clients and servers. >>>>> On the web you have multiple issuers, and client configuration doesn't >> apply at all. >>>>> In addition, CMP and EST put user authentication in the protocol. >>>>> On the web you rather put that in the "web-layer" like in <keygen>. >>>>> >>>>> Implementing a new enrollment protocol on the server side is >>>>> actually _piece_of_cake_, I have personally implemented not less >>>>> than four such in http://ejbca.org so you may very well start from >>>>> scratch with a list of requirements. I haven't see _much_ >> requirements to date. >>>>> What does for example key management mean? CMP supports >>>>> key-management but it is usually based on _manual_intervention_ by >>>>> an RA manager (when a user's card has expired) which doesn't translate >> to the web. >>>>> I.e. in order to do automated key renewals there must some attribute >>>>> holding the renewal URL or similar for the key in question. >>>>> Standardizing such functionality is probably not particularly easy. >>>>> >>>>> Anders >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> regards >>>>>> mountie. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 1:55 AM, GALINDO Virginie >> <Virginie.GALINDO@gemalto.com <mailto:Virginie.GALINDO@gemalto.com>> >> wrote: >>>>>> Mountie, Nick, Aymeric, >>>>>> >>>>>> Some time will be allocated during our San Jose F2F meeting to >> present a draft for this feature. That would be great if you could make it >> available a little bit before the F2F. >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Virginie >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Aymeric Vitte [mailto:vitteaymeric@gmail.com >> <mailto:vitteaymeric@gmail.com>] >>>>>> Sent: lundi 4 mars 2013 14:52 >>>>>> To: Harry Halpin >>>>>> Cc: Nick Van den Bleeken; Mountie Lee; public-webcrypto- >> comments@w3.org <mailto:public-webcrypto-comments@w3.org> >>>>>> Subject: Re: draft for certificate management >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 04/03/2013 13:04, Harry Halpin a écrit : >>>>>>> Also, when writing the spec try to determine if you could use the >>>>>>> low-level API to build what parts, and what other parts would need >>>>>>> some level of access to browser internals. Some features could be >>>>>>> done in a library on top of the Crypto API I hope. >>>>>> Of course!!! It has to use/extend the low-level API, the example >> I am giving can only be a real world example facilitator. >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> Aymeric >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> jCore >>>>>> Email : avitte@jcore.fr <mailto:avitte@jcore.fr> >>>>>> iAnonym : http://www.ianonym.com >>>>>> node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor >>>>>> GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms >>>>>> Web : www.jcore.fr <http://www.jcore.fr> >>>>>> Webble : www.webble.it <http://www.webble.it> >>>>>> Extract Widget Mobile : www.extractwidget.com >>>>>> <http://www.extractwidget.com> BlimpMe! : www.blimpme.com >>>>>> <http://www.blimpme.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Mountie Lee >>>>>> >>>>>> PayGate >>>>>> CTO, CISSP >>>>>> Tel : +82 2 2140 2700 >>>>>> E-Mail : mountie@paygate.net <mailto:mountie@paygate.net> >>>>>> >>>>>> ======================================= >>>>>> PayGate Inc. >>>>>> THE STANDARD FOR ONLINE PAYMENT >>>>>> for Korea, Japan, China, and the World >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> Inventive Designers' Email Disclaimer: >> http://www.inventivedesigners.com/email-disclaimer >
Received on Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:07:57 UTC