Re: [w3c/manifest] suggest in standard calling website->webapp process unified "add to home screen" or such in all browsers (not install) (Issue #1096)

Hey!

Thanks for the detailed answer and sorry if you felt at some points I was rude.

I understand that it was discussed in details and that install is kind of a Google/Microsoft etc. decision.

I see I am too late on this and of course it is a very complex process with a lot of participants.

If I could do it alone, supporting web apps as I do, I would do everything as I wrote. It is a really difficult phrase to find but I am 100% sure that install is a bubble thinking of IT people and it is very harmful to web apps. I find it kind of funny that Apple that is hostile to web apps uses "add to home screen".

I am not a native speaker and I do not have very detailed knowledge of all os-es / browsers. I am not totally happy with "add to home screen" but I am much more unhappy with "install" since what happens is integration not installation and this word is totally misleading and for simple users signals some potential danger. Every device has a screen and the home screen is the basic screen, on a pc the "desktop".

Still I think the real process is that the user wants a website to become
1. standalone (full screen like a native app)
2. reachable from the operating system, not from the browser (for a user it is typically understandable to use a home screen icon, even on a mac it is called home screen, it is understandable for windows and linux too)

I know that it is probably the same with standalone and full screen that it was debated etc.
Still, in the spec you feel there is no big picture, no real idea that a core feature is that a web app should be able to handle full screen (maybe it is not even the common thinking).

I am rather sad. I still think it is a mess. Sorry, that is my honest opinion. I still think this is the place (standard) where implicitly Apple and others are "forced" to help websites get out of the browser tab/window. Even if a web standard cannot force browsers etc, it would be great to have a clear view what actually could work.

And where else can we debate this?

This is the place actually that is trying to make a web domain possible to use the browser without UX as a headless engine like a java program uses the jvm on all (desktop) platforms. And I studied legal things so I have a better understanding of legal concepts than normal IT people: if it is not too much to handle for web browsers and operating systems, it can be made legally binding to provide some functionality like running web apps in a headless form. It is totally possible and it would help if it was required in a web standard.

It is not just one web standard. This web standard could/should be more, even if at the level of suggestions, even if it is normally not the case by web standards. This web standard governs the birth of web apps and in my opinion does a very poor job, sorry.

So what is a web app? What is the goal? What words should we use? (surely not install because it is a FACT that the app is already there and the web app runs in the same browser environment even if in a headless browser)

All could be written here (introduction etc). But first it should be realized that the real responsibility here is not text_direction or theme_color.

I think web apps are failing because of this poor standard and because there is not even a consensus what a web app is and how it is communicated to simple users.

1. debate of the big picture (I really dont know where actually and how to reach more people, that is a problem)
2. this standard should take the responsibility to communicate it
3. chromium should get it at least right...

Dragging the domain to the home screen would be great, calling it add to home screen would be ok and better than install.

A web app is a web domain that was dragged to the home screen and can be launched directly from the OS in a headless browser without any browser UX (refresh, navigation etc). A typical launching is by pressing its home screen button but on different platforms there are alternatives too. A web app has the same os integaration and discoverability / launching methods as a native app.

I do not say I know everything but it is really bad how it is now. And this is the only place where official views, hints can be added as part of a web standard.




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