Re: [w3c/manifest] beforeinstallprompt : Prompting user makes it to hard to discern whether the user truly wanted to "install" a web app (#835)

I'd like to chime in (since I was absent during this discussion).

This thread is conflating two separate issues: firstly, the subject line ("prompting user makes it hard to discern whether user truly wanted to install"), and secondly, whether this should be in the spec given the lack of interest from Mozilla and Apple. Let's keep this thread relevant to its subject line (the first issue), and continue discussing standards policy (the second issue) on #836.

Marcos, you've been clear from a process perspective that you want to remove this due to lack of interest. But I don't think you've commented on the first issue. In fact, I can't find any clear Mozilla position on this at all, recent or historical. You diligently wrote the spec for this years ago but as far as I can tell, this was never implemented in Firefox possibly just because nobody got around to it. mozilla/standards-positions#84 never really reached a conclusion, ending with "We will work this out in the spec itself. Don't require a position." So I'd like a clear answer from you (possibly consulting others at Mozilla): is Mozilla actually opposed to this API on the grounds that @rniwa is elaborating here, or another reason, or have you just never implemented it for lack of time?

I must say I do not understand @rniwa 's argument here. We have permission prompts for all sorts of scary things like cam/mic and geolocation which can be requested by the site at any time, and if the user is accepting them just to dismiss a prompt, they're going to have a bad time. `beforeinstallprompt` is at worst the same as any other permission prompt, and because of the way it was carefully designed, can be much more respectful of the user by only allowing itself to be called after a certain amount of engagement, or any other signal the UA wants to apply as a precondition. It doesn't make sense to veto this API when there are other APIs that give developers much more direct control over the prompting, with much more serious consequences if the user clicks through.

The argument that "the browser already has passive UI for the user to click, so why do we need an API for this" is also analogous to other permission prompts. Why do we allow sites to prompt for camera permission? We could just have all websites instruct users to click on their browser's "site settings" panel and manually activate camera permission. But that would create unnecessary friction and require sites to tailor their tutorial to each user agent. So we have an API to ask for camera permission. Exact same argument applies to app installation.

Also, it is entirely up to the developer what "prompting" means. If you don't want to show a modal dialogue, you could consider responding to a call to the `prompt()` method by simply flashing or wiggling the install button in your browser UI. You can do anything you want with your browser UI.

Having said that, I will continue discussing the removal on #836 based on the assumption that neither Mozilla nor Apple is going to implement.

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