- From: <sird@rckc.at>
- Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 13:07:07 -0600
- To: Giorgio Maone <g.maone@informaction.com>
- Cc: Adam Barth <w3c@adambarth.com>, Michal Zalewski <lcamtuf@coredump.cx>, Gareth Heyes <gazheyes@gmail.com>, Devdatta Akhawe <dev.akhawe@gmail.com>, Brandon Sterne <bsterne@mozilla.com>, "public-web-security@w3.org" <public-web-security@w3.org>
> and simply mark the relevant section of the > page as restricted in some way (no HTML parsing at all, no scripting, > no external subresources, etc). We already have that (<plaintext>), you can intercept the last plaintext tag in the document, and apply it's contents inside a seamless sandboxed iframe, and you get the same advantages.. Anyways, there's not need to argue about this.. you can actually create a javascript snippet of code that automatically transforms all occurrences of: <sandbox start="$nonce"> $user_content <sandbox end="$nonce"> into <iframe sandbox seamless srcdoc="$usercontent"> Greetings!! -- Eduardo On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Giorgio Maone <g.maone@informaction.com> wrote: >> <span sandboxstart="{$nonce}" /> >> <div class="untrusted-content-output-as-it-is">...</div> >> <span sandboxend="{$nonce} /> >> >> Ugliness (and possibly parser complexity) aside, what's wrong with this? >> It doesn't work in HTML. HTML doesn't support self-closing tags. > > Of course, the self-closing thing is just a detail to mask further ugliness > in XML serialization. > > <span sandboxstart="{$nonce}"></span> > <div class="untrusted-content-output-as-it-is">...</div> > <span sandboxend="{$nonce}></span> > > > Are there more serious objections (ugliness aside)? > -- G > > Adam Barth wrote, On 30/01/2011 19.37: >> >> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Giorgio Maone<g.maone@informaction.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> Stupid question of mine, maybe, especially if I missed something in the >>> thread. >>> >>>> I think there is a substantial advantage of being able to output small >>>> chunks of untrusted data as-is - note that this is the problem this >>>> sub-thread started with - and simply mark the relevant section of the >>>> page as restricted in some way (no HTML parsing at all, no scripting, >>>> no external subresources, etc). >>>> That said, this is sort of moot, because through the years, nobody >>>> could propose a broadly acceptable way to do this without >>>> substantially changing HTML / XML. >>> >>> What about using self-closing siblings, rather than the parent, as >>> delimiters? >>> This way you could include the nonce in the end delimiter without having >>> to >>> introduce an attribute in a closing tag, like >>> >>> <span sandboxstart="{$nonce}" /> >>> <div class="untrusted-content-output-as-it-is">...</div> >>> <span sandboxend="{$nonce} /> >>> >>> Ugliness (and possibly parser complexity) aside, what's wrong with this? >> >> It doesn't work in HTML. HTML doesn't support self-closing tags. >> >> Adam >> >> >>> Of course I'm very well aware that a problem probably bigger than syntax >>> is >>> implementing restrictions in the middle of a document, rather than at the >>> document-container level, that is likely the true reason why a sort of an >>> agreement could be found on iframes only. >>> >>> Michal Zalewski wrote, On 30/01/2011 6.43: >>>>> >>>>> Anyways, I digress.. the conclusion, from my point of view is that we >>>>> don't need XML data tokens if we have sandboxed iframes with srcdoc. >>>> >>>> I think there is a substantial advantage of being able to output small >>>> chunks of untrusted data as-is - note that this is the problem this >>>> sub-thread started with - and simply mark the relevant section of the >>>> page as restricted in some way (no HTML parsing at all, no scripting, >>>> no external subresources, etc). >>>> >>>> I sort of suspect that making this possible would be the single most >>>> effective way to put a dent in XSS; certainly more convenient than any >>>> restrictive, page-wide script policies. >>>> >>>> I think that sandboxed frames do not solve this problem, because: >>>> >>>> 1) Their performance / memory usage impact will probably render them >>>> largely impractical to put several dozen or hundred of them on a >>>> single page - and this is how many bits of untrusted text you may have >>>> on a page of a typical discussion forum or a mail client. Sandboxed >>>> frames solve the problem of untrusted gadgets, third-party documents, >>>> and some other cases like this, but not that of your typical >>>> discussion forum or so. >>>> >>>> [ Because of this, I am actually wondering if the combination of >>>> sandbox + seamless is going to be that useful. ] >>>> >>>> 2) For simple text-only output, the need to apply a specific transform >>>> to the payload (and do it well) is arguably comparable with the >>>> difficulty of avoiding XSS in the same scenario. >>>> >>>> That said, this is sort of moot, because through the years, nobody >>>> could propose a broadly acceptable way to do this without >>>> substantially changing HTML / XML. >>>> >>>> /mz >>>> >>> > >
Received on Sunday, 30 January 2011 19:08:00 UTC