- From: Giorgio Maone <g.maone@informaction.com>
- Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:20:09 +0100
- To: Michal Zalewski <lcamtuf@coredump.cx>
- CC: "sird@rckc.at" <sird@rckc.at>, Adam Barth <w3c@adambarth.com>, Gareth Heyes <gazheyes@gmail.com>, Devdatta Akhawe <dev.akhawe@gmail.com>, Brandon Sterne <bsterne@mozilla.com>, "public-web-security@w3.org" <public-web-security@w3.org>
Stupid question of mine, maybe, especially if I missed something in the thread. > I think there is a substantial advantage of being able to output small > chunks of untrusted data as-is - note that this is the problem this > sub-thread started with - and simply mark the relevant section of the > page as restricted in some way (no HTML parsing at all, no scripting, > no external subresources, etc). > That said, this is sort of moot, because through the years, nobody > could propose a broadly acceptable way to do this without > substantially changing HTML / XML. What about using self-closing siblings, rather than the parent, as delimiters? This way you could include the nonce in the end delimiter without having to introduce an attribute in a closing tag, like <span sandboxstart="{$nonce}" /> <div class="untrusted-content-output-as-it-is">...</div> <span sandboxend="{$nonce} /> Ugliness (and possibly parser complexity) aside, what's wrong with this? Of course I'm very well aware that a problem probably bigger than syntax is implementing restrictions in the middle of a document, rather than at the document-container level, that is likely the true reason why a sort of an agreement could be found on iframes only. -- G Michal Zalewski wrote, On 30/01/2011 6.43: >> Anyways, I digress.. the conclusion, from my point of view is that we >> don't need XML data tokens if we have sandboxed iframes with srcdoc. > I think there is a substantial advantage of being able to output small > chunks of untrusted data as-is - note that this is the problem this > sub-thread started with - and simply mark the relevant section of the > page as restricted in some way (no HTML parsing at all, no scripting, > no external subresources, etc). > > I sort of suspect that making this possible would be the single most > effective way to put a dent in XSS; certainly more convenient than any > restrictive, page-wide script policies. > > I think that sandboxed frames do not solve this problem, because: > > 1) Their performance / memory usage impact will probably render them > largely impractical to put several dozen or hundred of them on a > single page - and this is how many bits of untrusted text you may have > on a page of a typical discussion forum or a mail client. Sandboxed > frames solve the problem of untrusted gadgets, third-party documents, > and some other cases like this, but not that of your typical > discussion forum or so. > > [ Because of this, I am actually wondering if the combination of > sandbox + seamless is going to be that useful. ] > > 2) For simple text-only output, the need to apply a specific transform > to the payload (and do it well) is arguably comparable with the > difficulty of avoiding XSS in the same scenario. > > That said, this is sort of moot, because through the years, nobody > could propose a broadly acceptable way to do this without > substantially changing HTML / XML. > > /mz >
Received on Sunday, 30 January 2011 09:24:57 UTC