Re: setImmediate usage on the web

Hi all

Both setImmediate and requestIdleCallback are probably expected to have a
little different use case, but sometimes it's same for users, because
requestIdleCallback is able to cover setImmediate's features. Both API
should work on common task scheduling model, which contain the task queue
model, priority model and lifetime(deadline). Served model helps developer
knowing what's the difference of both API and building a polyfill clearly.

If possible, marge requestIdleCallback into Efficient Script Yielding(
http://w3c.github.io/setImmediate/). Of course, we don't need to make same
name for both API.


On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 7:54 PM, Ilya Grigorik <igrigorik@google.com> wrote:

> Brief aside... Copying Jordan's feedback (with his permission):
>
> On 24 June 2015 at 23:14, Jordan Walke <jordanjcw@fb.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ross,
>>
>> I'm Jordan from the React team at Facebook.
>>
>> I saw your post here:
>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-perf/2015Jun/0113.html
>>
>> I just wanted to say that this is exactly what I would like. I am working
>> on a version of React that automatically uses available frame time at the
>> end of every animation frame, to incrementally perform expensive UI
>> calculations such as rendering new content. If I had an API that would
>> execute my task such that prior work performed in the frame will be flushed
>> to the display, and such that I have a quick way to determine how much time
>> remains before the *next* animation frame, my life would be so much easier.
>> I don't really know how to get involved because I haven't been involved on
>> the mailing list yet and I don't have all the context, but your proposal
>> sounds exactly like what I would like. It would be hugely helpful.
>>
>> (The other thing is to ensure that frames are actually aligned with the
>> screen refresh!)
>>
>> Jordan Walke
>>
>
> FWIW, I think we're all in agreement that the idle callback use case is an
> important one and something we need to address, but still good to see it
> confirmed!
>
> ig
>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 3:15 PM, Ross McIlroy <rmcilroy@google.com> wrote:
>
>> On 24 June 2015 at 23:42, Tobin Titus <tobint@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ross, with regards to requestIdleCallback
>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZgYOBi_39-N6AbjL99qesiDagaSTbpN0R6CrSVK8NE4/edit#heading=h.lobhanl56igp>,
>>> I’m happy to be corrected, but I feel like requestIdleCallback is
>>> setImmediate with an “best guess” at the idle time provided to the
>>> callback.  Apart from telling the callback how long they have to run, I’m
>>> not sure how they differ. With 5% usage on the web of setImmediate, it
>>> would be hard to abandon it and hard to understand why other browsers
>>> haven’t implemented the existing spec. We add features to the platform all
>>> the time and I get that. But this feels like an opportunity to extend the
>>> existing API rather than starting from scratch.
>>>
>>
>> No I don't think this is the case. There are a number of differences
>> between requestIdleCallback and setImmediate over and above the deadline
>> argument.
>>
>> One difference is that a requestIdleCallback registered during an idle
>> period doesn't become eligible to be run until the next idle period. This
>> allows code patterns like the following:
>>
>>   function checkSpelling(deadline) {
>>     if (performance.now() + 5 <= deadline.deadline) {
>>       // This will take more than 5ms so wait until we
>>       // get called back with a long enough deadline.
>>       requestIdleCallback(checkSpelling);
>>       return;
>>     }
>>     // do work...
>>   }
>>
>> If this is called with a deadline of less than 5ms then it won't get run
>> again until the next idle period, at which point the deadline may be large
>> enough to do the work. If the same pattern was used with setImmediate then
>> the callback would get to run again immediately with the same (or a
>> slightly smaller) deadline each time until the deadline is finally used up,
>> causing the CPU to burn power unnecessarily.
>>
>> The second major difference is that requestIdleCallback is lower priority
>> than any other work, where as far as I can tell, setImmediate is only lower
>> priority than internal rendering operations. You can see this in two
>> (contrived) examples I've experimented with.
>>
>> One code snippet [1] has a rAF callback which uses up the full 16.67ms
>> frame budget each rAF, and another callback scheduled using either
>> requestIdleCallback or setImmediate. When using requestIdleCallback (with
>> the prototype Chrome implementation here
>> <https://codereview.chromium.org/1119683003/>) only "raf" will be
>> printed to the console - the requestIdleCallback never gets a chance to run
>> because the is no idle time available. When setImmediate is used instead
>> (tested on IE12 since I don't have access to a Windows 10 machine to test
>> on MS Edge) the console shows "raf, idle, raf, idle..." - even although
>> there is no idle time available the setImmediate callback still gets a
>> chance to run.
>>
>> The same is true for a page which uses up all CPU time during setTimeouts
>> [2] - when scheduling another callback via requestIdleFrame you get only
>> "timeout" printed in the log because the timeouts are using up all idle
>> time, however when setImmediate is used to schedule the callback you get
>> "timeout, idle, timeout, idle..." - with the setTimeout callback seeming to
>> get a chance to run at each turn of the even loop, whether the browser is
>> idle or not.
>>
>> It would be possible to modify setImmediate to have a similar processing
>> model, such that the callbacks only happen if the browser is truly idle,
>> however I feel that this would cause a lot of confusion to existing users
>> who would wonder why their callback doesn't run "immediately" (particularly
>> given the name). In addition, making such a change would probably requires
>> something like requestIdleCallback's optional "timeout" parameter, so that
>> authors could guarantee that a callback gets run at some point even if the
>> browser is never idle during the time period.
>>
>> I'm sure there are many valid use-cases for setImmediate (in particular
>> avoiding the clamping to 1ms of setTimeout(, 0)), however I think there are
>> an important set of use cases which would be better served by a new API
>> which is purely focused on enabling background work while the browser is
>> idle.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ross
>>
>> [1] https://github.com/rmcilroy/rIC_tests/blob/master/raf.html
>> [2] https://github.com/rmcilroy/rIC_tests/blob/master/setTimeout.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
KAWADA Hiroshi
Web Developer (JPN)
http://hiroshik.info/