- From: Kyle Simpson <getify@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:40:53 -0500
- To: "Alex Komoroske" <komoroske@chromium.org>, "Jatinder Mann" <jmann@microsoft.com>
- Cc: <public-web-perf@w3.org>
> Although the majority of cases don't require precise knowledge of why the > page is hidden, there are some that do. As a particular example, removing > the state would make it impossible to factor out prerendering from > client-side impression counts. Many advertising and analytics packages > today define a page view or impression as when the page loads, > irrespective of if the document is focused or not. Do analytics packages really do this on purpose? Or is it just that prior to now, there was no (reliable) way to know if a page was only ever in a background tab and never actually viewed? I can't understand why it would be desirable to lump "loaded but never actually viewed or interacted with" events in with "loaded and viewed at least once" events. It would seem like advertising and analytics packages are misleading their customers (unintentionally of course) by reporting background-tab-renders as impressions, when in fact there was no actual impression. So wouldn't it make much more sense to lump together both "prerendered" and "rendered only in the background and never seen" as illegitimate page-views, thereby leaving page-view counting only to actually legitimately *seen* web pages? Wouldn't we be doing advertising/analytics *and* end-users a favor by making this type of reporting more explicitly accurate? ------ Also, since prerendered currently is only a experimental feature in an experimental branch of one browser, your argument seems to assume that we need to include this data because we're sure that prerendering is going to catch on and be a non-trivial reality on the web. This I think is far from an obvious assumption. If "prerendering" sticks around for awhile, or if other browsers pick up on it, I think *then* it'd be an argument for why a spec needs to define that "prerendered" value. And that would be at least a decent support for my previous message's assertion that we should keep the `visibilityState` variable, with only the two values for now. But defining in an official spec now something that only chrome is experimenting with is premature and tail-wagging-the-dog, I think. If Chrome wants to, in conjunction with their "prerendering", define a vendor-prefixed state value like "-chrome-prerendered", then I think they should be able to just fine. And if advertisers and analytics packages want to special case their page-view counting for such a vendor-specific behavior, they also should be allowed to. But if we insist on keeping the "prerendered" value *now* as an official spec'd value, it points back to my assertions in last week's communications, that there is in fact a non-trivial dependency between "prerendering" and "PageVisibility" -- an assertion which was strongly denied in last week's communications. The two are either strongly related (co-requisite), or they're separate and not co-requisite. We have to pick one, it can't be both answers at once. --Kyle
Received on Tuesday, 21 June 2011 19:42:09 UTC