Re: General objection regarding Web NFC

On 2015-04-14 08:52, Anders Rundgren wrote:
> On 2015-04-14 17:16, Kis, Zoltan wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 6:01 PM, Anders Rundgren 
>> <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     On 2015-04-14 15:46, Kostiainen, Anssi wrote:
>>
>>             On 14 Apr 2015, at 14:41, Anders Rundgren 
>> <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>__> wrote:
>>
>>             When I read issues like 
>> https://github.com/w3c/web-__nfc/issues/16 
>> <https://github.com/w3c/web-nfc/issues/16>
>>             I get the impression that you expect connecting clients 
>> to use Web-technology.
>>
>>             IMO, this assumption will severely limit the value of Web 
>> NFC.
>>             The only "standard" that's really lacking, is a way for 
>> untrusted Web-pages to interact with connecting client devices.
>> http://ipt.intel.com/Home/How-__it-works/network-security-__identity-management/ipt-with-__near-field-communications 
>> <http://ipt.intel.com/Home/How-it-works/network-security-identity-management/ipt-with-near-field-communications> 
>>
>>
>>             How Web-based OSes expose NFC to the outer world should 
>> IMO be left to another forum to cater for including
>>             security considerations.
>>
>>
>> This is the CG which intended to deal with it.
>
> So this is basically SysApps reborn, then?
>
> > Yet I am just thinking: isn't the Web Payments IG a better place to 
> handle your request
> > in more detail, and provide input for this CG for API changes?
>
>
> I'm not talking about API changes, I'm suggesting an entirely 
> different direction
> targeted at the mass-market which is currently using *agnostic* 
> connecting clients.

Community Groups are set up so if someone has an idea they want to 
pursue, a new Community Group for that is very easy to start.  You could 
create a CG aimed at the "a way for untrusted Web-pages to interact with 
connecting client devices".  That isn't what the Web NFC CG is about.
>
> This is way outside of what a Web Payment IG could deal with, this is 
> core technology.
> In fact, I'm not even myself enough into NFC and WebIDL to create the 
> complete
> specification which is one reason why I joined this CG.
>
> Anyway, there is a 3 + 8 page "presentation/specification" for those 
> who are interested.
> https://cyberphone.github.io/openkeystore/resources/docs/webnfc--web2device-bridge.pdf 
>
> https://cyberphone.github.io/openkeystore/resources/docs/web2native-bridge.pdf 
>
>
> Regards
> Anders
>
>>
>>
>>         The group's Charter defines the goals and scope for the 
>> group. I encourage you familiarise yourself with the document:
>>
>>         http://w3c.github.io/web-nfc/__charter/ 
>> <http://w3c.github.io/web-nfc/charter/>
>>
>>         The Charter was crafted with input from multiple 
>> stakeholders, including multiple major browser implementers.
>>
>>
>>     I know but the charter doesn't address my question.
>>
>>
>> In version 1 of the API we didn't want to address payments at all. 
>> The use cases we intended to solve are more like the following 
>> (reading/writing tags, send peer messages/data):
>> http://w3c.github.io/web-nfc/use-cases.html#reading-generic-information-in-a-museum 
>>
>> http://w3c.github.io/web-nfc/use-cases.html#reading-information-in-administration-office 
>>
>> http://w3c.github.io/web-nfc/use-cases.html#updating-tag-information
>> http://w3c.github.io/web-nfc/use-cases.html#sending-image-to-another-web-nfc-capable-device 
>>
>>
>> and the problems we wanted to deal with concerning security and 
>> privacy are summarized in
>> https://github.com/w3c/web-nfc/issues/2
>>
>> and in
>> http://w3c.github.io/web-nfc/security-privacy.html#threats-and-possible-solutions 
>>
>> http://w3c.github.io/web-nfc/security-privacy.html#security-policies
>>
>> This defines the scope for Version 1. As a note, there are a couple 
>> of bugs in the current version of the spec which we'll iron out ASAP 
>> (this week).
>>
>>     I.e. a fundamental issue didn't show-up until it got into the 
>> actual specification.
>>     BTW, this is quite normal, it happens all the time :-)
>>
>>
>> Yes, your proposal has potential indeed, and I encourage you to drive 
>> it forward in this CG and/or in Web Payments IG.
>>
>>
>>         As the participant of the group, you are free to propose changes
>>
>>     > to the Charter per the "Amendments to this Charter" section 
>> defined in the above-mentioned document.
>>
>>     I prefer leaving this to Intel and Google to think about.
>>
>>
>> It doesn't work like this. If this is important for you, please 
>> contribute: make proposals, edit the spec/submit PR's etc.
>> Of course others will also think about it, but priorities may differ.
>>
>>
>>     There is one consideration I would like to add as well:
>>     Ideally you always want to "centralize" privacy and security UX, 
>> right?
>>     The problem is that this "one-size-fits-all" approach creates new 
>> problems
>>     since the browser often cannot really tell the user what exactly 
>> is at risk.
>>     Therefore I have decided to "delegate" this problem to the 
>> connecting applications
>>     which can do this job much better.
>>
>>
>> It would be nice if you'd write that up as a section to the Security 
>> and Privacy doc.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Zoltan
>>
>
>
>

Received on Tuesday, 14 April 2015 19:58:36 UTC