- From: Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2015 14:07:08 +0900
- To: "public-web-and-tv@w3.org" <public-web-and-tv@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAJ8iq9XCVp_DS3ZLpBZzyK6Fz4COcfcQ=nG9Nrya6SiYd8VLTQ@mail.gmail.com>
available at:
http://www.w3.org/2015/02/25-webtv-minutes.html
also as text below.
Thanks a lot for taking notes again, Bill!
Please note that the next meeting will be held on March 11 at 11:00 am ET.
Kazuyuki
---
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Web&TV IG GGIE TF
25 Feb 2015
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2015/02/25-webtv-irc
Attendees
Present
JP, PaulG-ATT, alex_deacon, MikeW, mark_vickers,
azamlerc, kaz, glennD, ldaigle, NiloM, BillRose
Regrets
Chair
Glenn
Scribe
BillRose
Contents
* [3]Topics
* [4]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<glennD> Agenda for todays call
<glennD> 1. Approval of meeting minutes from 2/11/2015
<glennD> 2. agenda bash
<NiloM> +1.913.841 is NiloM
<glennD> 3. Use Cases in Wiki review & discuss
<glennD> 4. next set of cases to focus on
<glennD>
[5]https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/GGIE_TF/UseCases#Use_Case
s
[5] https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/GGIE_TF/UseCases#Use_Cases
Glenn did a role call by region
<azamlerc> Hi folks. Andrew Zamler-Carhat, Cisco France
<ldaigle> glenn
<ldaigle> your audio is busted
Glenn had to hang up and call back in to fix audio
<azamlerc> Andrew Zamler-Carhart, Cisco France
Bill Rose is acting as scribe
<ldaigle> Leslie Daigle is here on the east coast
Glenn called for the approval of last meeting minutes - there
were approved without change
Use Cases discussion
<JP> link again?
Glenn called for everyone to pull up the link to the Use Cases
for discussion. It includes a template.
<azamlerc>
[6]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/GGIE_TF/UseCases
[6] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/GGIE_TF/UseCases
Glenn asked for everyone to review and comment on the Contents,
terminology, etc.
Glenn will assign the identifiers and keep them unique and
orderly
Glenn populated the WiKi with 3 Use Cases to start the
discussion
Glenn discussed the first Use Case - UC-1 Basic Steamed Content
Viewing
Glenn - trivial UC. It does not discuss how it is done,
buffering, etc. Not real world. Mainly identifies the actors as
an exercise in writing a UC.
Glenn - UC-2 Streamed Content Viewing. This is a bit more
realistic.
Glenn - instead of a single URL a manifest is returned by the
source to the app listing multiple sources
Glenn - app (sender) is in control instead of the receiver. App
can control flow rate, buffers, fill rate, bit rates, etc. for
optimization
Nilo - Is this to describe adaptive streaming?
Glenn - yes, one of the things introduced is adaptive
streaming. Are there changes needed to the UC?
Nilo - can be read in several ways - same content is stored in
multiple locations yet it appears to imply the files may have
different representations.
Glenn - thinking was that so much work has been done on ABR
(e.g. DADH) that we don't need to go into those details. More
for exposing actors and concepts. Would it be helpful to
introduce more?
Correction - DASH, not DADH
Glenn - will add more on what could be in the manifest to
clarify
Glenn - UC-3 Identifying Streamed Content
<JP_Intel> Sorry, can someone indicate where these UCs can be
retrieved?
Glenn - builds on UC-2 but adds viewer interactions. Viewer
selects an asset from the list sent by sender and send request
for specific content
<NiloM> [7]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/GGIE_TF/UseCases
[7] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/GGIE_TF/UseCases
Glenn - key point is to obtain an identifier
<JP_Intel> Thank you
Glenn - identifier describes what is being played but not
format, resolution, etc. Different versions will have different
identifiers e.g. EIDR but no other information about the file.
Glenn - If 2 identifiers are equal, then the content is equal
in terms of sequence of frames, frames included, etc. but no
info on format properties.
Question - what might the differences be between 2 "equal" IDs?
Glenn - 2 copies of a Directors cut of a movie may be equal but
in different resolutions - SD/HD. Based on how EIDR works today
Glenn - different compression could be used.
Nilo - In example of 2 Directors Cut versions, are you saying
SD/HD may have same EIDR?
Glenn - It may have same ID but does not have to. Depends on
what is registered with EIDR. Arranging to have someone from
EIDR to talk to this group and answer questions. Posted link to
EIDR for the group.
Andrew - Useful to look at EIDR as a starting point but not the
only one to look at. Is is a flat or hierarchical? Does not
seem to include enough info.
Glenn - their view is not hierachical in that it does not
include e.g. geo info. Issue a new EIDR for different versions.
But they maintain additional info for each EIDR registered that
can be accessed.
Glenn - long ID has more information such as registrant name
but much of the info is not included in the ID.
Glenn - described 3 ways to extract unique ID - from metadata;
from imbedded watermark (audio or video); or from fingerprint
Glenn - 2 things to do with extracted ID - record/report for
measurement/logging; Form a URI to be used with other video
content sources to uniquely identify the content being viewed
Glenn - URI can be used to locate additional caches of the
content to improve viewing experience
Glenn - today there is no univeral standard way to ID content,
use fingerprint to ID, create URI based on an ID, etc.
<mark_vickers> EIDR example (click on "Relationships" tab to
see hierarchy):
[8]https://ui.eidr.org/view/content?id=10.5240/6933-25C9-299D-6
71A-24FB-V
[8] https://ui.eidr.org/view/content?id=10.5240/6933-25C9-299D-671A-24FB-V
Glenn - Action Item; Create new UC where extraction is the
first step
Action Item- ? List metadata included in the watermark by
creator at creation and added downstream by the work flow
<trackbot> Error finding 'Item-'. You can review and register
nicknames at <[9]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/users>.
[9] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/users
Glenn - We will need to capture how to identify whether a cache
has the entire file versus portions of the file at e.g. a CDN?
Is anyone willing to take this UC as an action item/
Question - From user perspective I search and get back a set of
URIs for the content which can be used to obtain the content,
switch to a new URL if there is an interuption, etc.
Glenn - Yes this is one of the goals of GGIE. The metadata can
be used to resolve information associated with content for use
throughout the workflow, user, delivery, etc. Current CDNs have
a basket of "tricks" to aid in the delivery of the content. But
they have very little info from the client.
Glenn - part of the idea here is to discuss information that
the client could contribute to improve CDN performance.
<JP_Intel> Sorry, Glenn, but I need to drop now due to a
conflcit. Will discuss offline by e-mail about introducing what
you need for Content Identifier extraction.
Leslie - Glenn is describing how best to find the optimum
version for delivery to the client/user. But I think I heard
Nilo ask how does a user find the "Directors Cut" itself?
Nilo - seems there are several levels of resolution required -
"I want a copy of the Directors Cut"; Second level of
resolution includes optimizing locating the optimal flow from
cache to client.
Glenn - so user experience is search/discovery - not network
layer. What is available to watch?
? - Also what is available from your service(s)/provider(s)
versus what is available in general.
Glenn - yes. Could also include other formats, languages, etc.,
which may be aviable on a different service on a different
device.
Andrew - - Yes - same content might also be available from
multiple providers I have access to. Would like to see all and
choose myself.
Glenn - Anyone willing to write a rough flow of several of
these concepts. Nilo, Andrew?
Nilo, Andrew - yes.
Nilo - already available using e.g. Google.
Nilo - I thought this is what GGIE is focused on.
Andrew - more technical people may be capable of using Google
but many are not.
Glenn - The stuff from Google contains what they have
discovered and put into results they think you want to see.
Different from accurate/complete results tailored to the user's
actual services, clients, etc. GGIE can contribute to this area
of a user centric focus.
Glenn - about all content including user content, not just
commercial content
Andrew - not describing world today, but what it could be
Glenn will try to populate additional UCs. Anyone can contact
him to add to the UCs.
Glenn - next meeting: March 11, 11:00 AM ET.
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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--
Kaz Ashimura, W3C Staff Contact for TV, MMI, Voice, Geo, NFC and Auto
Tel: +81 3 3516 2504
Received on Friday, 27 February 2015 05:08:24 UTC