- From: Daniel Davis <ddavis@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 23:40:36 +0900
- To: "public-web-and-tv@w3.org" <public-web-and-tv@w3.org>
- CC: Mark Sadecki <mark@w3.org>
Hi all,
Here are the minutes from today's Web and TV Interest Group call:
http://www.w3.org/2014/05/28-webtv-minutes.html
Also pasted as text below.
With regards,
Daniel
----------
- DRAFT -
Web and TV IG call
28 May 2014
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2014May/0010.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2014/05/28-webtv-irc
Attendees
Present
Bin, Alex, Kaz, Yosuke, Daniel, Paul, JC, Giri, Wu
Regrets
Giuseppe, Mark_Vickers
Chair
Yosuke
Scribe
Daniel
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Use-case gathering
2. [6]Audio Fingerprinting (watermarking) - Daniel
3. [7]Media playback adjustment - Daniel
4. [8]Media stream synchronization
5. [9]Triggered Interactive Overlay
6. [10]Accessibility use case extensions
* [11]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<ddavis> scribenick: ddavis
Use-case gathering
<yosuke> [12]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas
[12] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas
yosuke: So there are some use cases from IG members and several
concerning accessibility.
... So going through the wiki page...
... First use-case is audio fingerprinting.
<kaz> scribenick: kaz
Audio Fingerprinting (watermarking) - Daniel
<inserted> [13]Audio Fingerprinting
[13]
https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#Audio_Fingerprinting_.28watermarking.29
ddavis: ATSC asked about proposal on this
... Facebook has announced they're adding watermarking
capability to their mobile apps
<gmandyam> Just to clarify: The ATSC put out a
call-for-proposals for watermarking video/audio with an
embedded low rate data channel (around 1 kbps), where the user
device could extract information in the broadcast feed to
retrieve additional data related to the content being played.
paul: uncertain about what to do...
ddavis: would add clarification
paul: great
gmandyam: video watermark and audio watermark
... audio fingerprinting for location identification, etc.
... think video watermarking fits the description here
paul: what do you mean by "video watermarking" and "audio
watermarking"?
... microphone to content recognition
ddavis: maybe there are two separate use cases here
yosuke: agree
ddavis: would split them then
jcverdie: concerned about patents
ddavis: thought about that...
paul: this is more about APIs
ddavis: need to investigate
paul: EME also has APIs for content protection
... may be related to patents
ddavis: EME itself is an exception
... would investigate that point
Media playback adjustment
<inserted> [14]Media Playback Adjustment
[14]
https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#Media_playback_adjustment
ddavis: adjust media playback speed, etc.
<PaulHiggs> <video> can change speed
<PaulHiggs> but audio is likely to be muted
yosuke: thinks this feature is important for broadcasting
service
... any other questions?
aldafu: playback rate for video
... possible to do it
ddavis: but audio may be muted
<ddavis> scribenick: ddavis
kaz: When we investigate this, maybe we can consider extending
it, e.g. for Japanese videos - if we try to playback at a
higher speed, the player can play the video and sound faster
and the speech sound is played back at the original frequency.
... So there's a special speech playback technology. The sound
is not muted and the sound quality is not changed.
yosuke: I think modern VCRs have similar functions.
... So when we playback with double speed the voice may be
high-pitched, which we don't want.
<PaulHiggs> how does the re-sync occur?
<aldafu> ddavis: check
[15]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/video/mediaevents.html
[15] http://www.w3.org/2010/05/video/mediaevents.html
yosuke: If the HTML5 media element doesn't have that function,
it's worth considering.
<aldafu> ddavis, you can actually control playback rate and
audio goes along for me
<aldafu> ddavis, not really, it becomes pretty warped
<kaz> [some smart recorder has a capability of preserver the
audio pitch]
Media stream synchronization
ddavis: Next use case is about media sychronisation. For
example, two people watching the same content on two devices
(e.g. next to each other on the train) would like to have the
videos synchronised so they can laugh at the same jokes at the
same time.
<PaulHiggs> there are several industry initiatives on screen
synchronization
<inserted> [16]Media Stream Synchronization
[16]
https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#Media_stream_synchronization
yosuke: Using watermarking can take time so it may not work.
PaulHiggs: There are a few other industry organisations looking
at synchronising streams - AKA screen synchronisation or
companion device synchronisation.
yosuke: This use case has some new perspective.
... The broadcasting industry is syncing a broadcast stream and
video, whereas this use case is about syncing two videos.
PaulHiggs: I read a couple of things in this - there's
multi-camera angle synchronisation and multi-video
synchronisation.
... It could be 2.5 use cases. The multi-angle one could be on
the same device or separate devices.
<scribe> ACTION: ddavis to clarify use case 1 description
[recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/28-webtv-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-194 - Clarify use case 1 description
[on Daniel Davis - due 2014-06-04].
<scribe> ACTION: ddavis to check current ability to change
playback rate for HTML media element. [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/28-webtv-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-195 - Check current ability to change
playback rate for html media element. [on Daniel Davis - due
2014-06-04].
<scribe> ACTION: ddavis to split synchronisation use case (#4)
[recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/28-webtv-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-196 - Split synchronisation use case
(#4) [on Daniel Davis - due 2014-06-04].
Triggered Interactive Overlay
<inserted> [20]Triggered Interactive Overlay UC
[20]
https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#Triggered_Interactive_Overlay
yosuke: Bin, could you explain use case 4 please?
Bin_Hu: When you watch TV, based on the service provider you'll
be provided with an overlay showing the promotion of another
channel, for example.
... The content is triggered by content in the main stream.
... There are a few requirements that can be extracted from
this.
... So the trigger could be within the stream, or it could be
within the platform and associated with a channel.
... Also, you may be viewing a baseball game, for example, and
there could be a trigger that shows an overlay.
... This overlay could show a different team.
... These overlays must be valid during that 15 or 30 seconds.
... Or it could be triggered by a particular actor in the
content.
<PaulHiggs> can you clarify why this only applies to a "Hybrid
STB"?
Bin_Hu: This trigger must be technology-agnostic.
<PaulHiggs> HbbTV and MPEG DASH already provide "standardized"
events
Bin_Hu: HTML5 may be enhanced by added event types to support
these different triggers.
... On the other hand, in HTML5 there may be some other ways,
specifically in specs for the TV industry.
yosuke: These trigger event types may be related to the Media
In-Band Resource Community Group.
... They're looking at MPEG events and tracks
Bin_Hu: Right, it may be part of that or it could be something
for another group to look into.
PaulHiggs: In the use case you say this applies to a hybrid
STB. Any reason why it has to be a hybrid STB?
Bin_Hu: That's just an example. Maybe IP STB or other is also
applicable.
jcverdie: I'm confused about the difference about your use case
and a basic web app to get web notifications from the server.
Bin_Hu: For example with sports, you may have a trigger engine
within the STB, e.g. at 7:00pm, so the user may be offered
other content.
... But how to enable those events on the web platform is the
issue.
... How to create the same experience on top of playing content
(e.g. Channel 5)?
... The native platform is able to use such trigger engines.
yosuke: Any other comments?
... Bin, I think this is interesting so I'd like to do some gap
analysis of this use case and the Media In-Band Resource CG.
... I'll do that quickly and put the results on the mailing
list.
Bin_Hu: Great, thank you.
kaz: I'd also like to join the gap analysis work because
there's a slight possibility of MMI work being related.
<PaulHiggs> what is MMI?
Accessibility use case extensions
yosuke: Do we have any of the accessibility people here today?
kaz: No but we can invite them for the next time.
<PaulHiggs> is this "accessability" for those with disabled?
ddavis: These are additional parts to the use cases from the
first round.
kaz: These are not necessarily brand new use cases. We can
start by briefly checking the use cases additions that have
been submitted.
yosuke: So you suggest we walk through them quickly?
kaz: Yes, some of them.
... Maybe we can just pick up the accessibility portion from
some of them.
yosuke: Do you have any suggestions about which to look at?
kaz: Mark Sadecki (W3C) and John Foliot (member) created these.
John considered media accessibility requirements so let's look
at UC 8.
<kaz> [21]Accessibility Extension Use Case 8
[21]
https://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Jfoliot/UseCases#.22Use_Case_Eight_.E2.80.93_Download_and_Go.22
yosuke: Use case is Download and Go.
... The original use case is when the user downloads content on
to a tablet to watch later.
... Accessibility requirement is that whenever a media file is
downloaded, all related resources (captions, etc.) must also be
available for download.
... The download of the supplemental resources should maintain
the hierarchy.
... The file directory structure is preserved in the download.
... For example, putting all files in a zip or cab file.
kaz: So this means we have to think about how to pack all
related content.
... This is similar to ePub format for digital books.
yosuke: The reality of the industry is that the recorder splits
the information from the original stream.
... I think we can suggest something to the TV industry.
kaz: We could also think about media synchronisation for this
purpose as well.
... Not only in-band information but also out-band information
as well.
yosuke: I think there are two ways to deal with these
requirements.
... One way is to improve these use cases.
... But to me, these sound like more fundamental requirements.
... It sounds like something similar to GGIE that is now
talking about nodes between original creators and consumers and
that content should not change between them.
... We could create a note or guideline about essential
requirements for web and TV.
... Which way do you think fits into W3C's way of working best?
kaz: Maybe we could start with a note or guidelines and if
needed pick up additional requirements or use cases later.
ddavis: So we can get general, more common accessibility issues
as a note or set of guidelines, and then particular ones may be
better as a new use case.
yosuke: People form the industry can reference what kind of
requirements they need to satisfy by looking at our guidelines.
For something more specific we can have a separate use case.
... So Kaz or Daniel, could you feed this back to the
accessibility group?
ddavis: Yes
yosuke: Should we invite them to this call?
kaz: Yes, we can do that.
yosuke: Should the IG do something before the next call?
... I can classify their requirements into general ones and
specific ones.
ddavis: That sounds very useful to me.
kaz: we can also send a call for participation on this topic.
<gmandyam> Giri signing off - thanks.
ddavis: The deadline for use case submissions is the end of
this week, right?
kaz: Yes, but we can polish use cases after that.
yosuke: So we've gone through all the use cases.
<scribe> ACTION: Yosuke to classify the accessibility
requirements into general ones and specific ones. [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/28-webtv-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-197 - Classify the accessibility
requirements into general ones and specific ones. [on Yosuke
Funahashi - due 2014-06-04].
ddavis: With 4k content starting to increase (e.g. Netflix) is
this something that can affect our use cases? Do we need new
ones?
yosuke: In Japan broadcasters have started looking at caption
for 4k but it's still very early stage.
... I'm not sure the caption people have considered 4k. It may
be better to ask them if there are gaps or problems.
ddavis: OK, I'll ask them.
yosuke: During the last TPAC the work of the Community Group
was migrated into the Working Group.
ddavis: I can speak to the Timed Text Working Group
<scribe> ACTION: ddavis to ask Timed Text WG about 4k affecting
captioning. [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/28-webtv-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-198 - Ask timed text wg about 4k
affecting captioning. [on Daniel Davis - due 2014-06-04].
yosuke: There may be other non-captioning issues with 4K.
... We can take a step-by-step approach, looking at captioning
first.
... Another alternative is to also discuss other issues within
the IG.
... What do you think?
kaz: I think step-by-step approach is better.
yosuke: Let's go with a step-by-step approach.
PaulHiggs: If we're going to start looking at future
technologies, there's all kind of things about gesture and
speech-based input/control.
... Are you expecting use cases on those?
PaulHiggs: So we could focus on 4K but then we don't look at
something else.
yosuke: Any topic that IG members or the industry is interested
in can be the topic for these use cases.
... For example, Netflix is bringing 4K content so it's worth
looking at.
... Japanese industry will also start broadcasting 4k trials
during this year's world cup. So it's not a far-future
technology.
... If there's something that can affect web users, it could be
a relevant topic.
ddavis: There's also a requirement that any use case is fine as
long as somebody has ownership of it.
PaulHiggs: Should Netflix be bringing this to the discussion?
yosuke: What about asking the stakeholders to submit issues or
problems?
... There are some research facilities dealing with 4k - we can
ask them about issues and web standards.
kaz: You can also bring your ideas to the wiki.
PaulHiggs: What I'm trying to say is let's solve a problem
where there is one.
... I don't think we can answer what they need - only they can
answer that.
yosuke: Paul's point is good, so how about creating an
invitation or questionnaire for 4k stakeholders?
... We can create the text and ask stakeholders, sharing the
result with the IG.
... Based on that we can decide what to do next.
<scribe> ACTION: ddavis and yosuke to create questionnaire for
4k stakeholders about web standards issues. [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/28-webtv-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-199 - And yosuke to create
questionnaire for 4k stakeholders about web standards issues.
[on Daniel Davis - due 2014-06-04].
yosuke: Thank you all. Let's do follow-up work on the mailing
list.
<kaz> [ adjourned ]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: ddavis and yosuke to create questionnaire for 4k
stakeholders about web standards issues. [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/28-webtv-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: ddavis to ask Timed Text WG about 4k affecting
captioning. [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/28-webtv-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: ddavis to check current ability to change
playback rate for HTML media element. [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/28-webtv-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: ddavis to clarify use case 1 description
[recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/28-webtv-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: ddavis to split synchronisation use case (#4)
[recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/28-webtv-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Yosuke to classify the accessibility requirements
into general ones and specific ones. [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/28-webtv-minutes.html#action04]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Received on Wednesday, 28 May 2014 14:41:16 UTC