Re: [tt] Notes from Kick-off teleconference.

Apologies, but I had provided the wrong URL for the 608/708 conversion
specification.

The latest version is at
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/text-tracks/raw-file/default/608toVTT/608toVTT.html
and is a lot more complete for CEA708 captions.

The url that I had provided below is unfortunately very old (even though
the JS of the page pretends to be current). I will ask the TextTrack CG to
make an official CG document out of it and publish to a better URL that
does not require JS to render.

Best Regards,
Silvia.


On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com
> wrote:

> Here are some more links for TextTrack / WebVTT:
>
> Getting Started With the Track Element:
> http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/track/basics/
>
> An Introduction to WebVTT and <track>:
> http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/an-introduction-to-webvtt-and-track/
>
> WebVTT validator:
> http://quuz.org/webvtt/
>
> WebVTT implementations in browsers:
> * IE 10:
> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Graphics/VideoCaptions/Default.html
> * Chrome:
> http://www.iandevlin.com/blog/2012/06/html5/google-chrome-supports-webvtt-subtitles
> * Opera: my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2012/08/03/summer-core-update
> * Firefox: making progress
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=629350
>
> JavaScript polyfills for backwards compatibility: see list in
>
> http://www.w3.org/community/texttracks/2012/08/23/webvtt-support-in-browsers/
>
> Also note that the wiki at
> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Efforts only talks about a
> 608 mapping to WebVTT - the spec at
> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/text-tracks/raw-file/669f6b95a488/608toVTT/608toVTT.htmlactually also maps 708. Question to the group: would it be better to split
> that into two specs?
>
> HTH.
>
> Cheers,
> Silvia.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 2:40 AM, Giuseppe Pascale <giuseppep@opera.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> these are some rough notes from the TT kick-off call.
>> Participants are welcome to point out errors or significant omissions.
>>
>>
>> /g
>>
>>
>> ================
>>
>>                                - DRAFT -
>>
>>                 Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference
>>
>> 26 Feb 2013
>>
>> Attendees
>>
>>    Present
>>           pal, Kazuyuki, mike, Giuseppe, Mark_Vickers, Yosuke,
>>           BobLund, glenn, clarke, Sheau
>>
>>    Regrets
>>    Chair
>>           pal
>>
>>    Scribe
>>           giuseppe
>>
>> Contents
>>
>>      * [3]Topics
>>          1. [4]Timed Text Task Force
>>          2. [5]introduction
>>      * [6]Summary of Action Items
>>      ______________________________**____________________________
>>
>>    <trackbot> Date: 26 February 2013
>>
>> Timed Text Task Force
>>
>>    <kaz> Meeting: TT
>>
>> introduction
>>
>>    pal: kickoff meeting, we will try to work over mail but was
>>    good to have an initial call
>>
>> [7]http://www.w3.org/2011/**webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Kick-**
>> Off_Meeting_Agenda<http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Kick-Off_Meeting_Agenda>
>>
>>    pal: (going through the agenda)
>>
>> <pal> [8]http://www.w3.org/2011/**webtv/wiki/Tt<http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Tt>
>>
>>    pal: let's start with our objectives
>>    ... let's review them
>>    ... any comment? none
>>
>> <pal> [9]http://www.w3.org/2011/**webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Efforts<http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Efforts>
>>
>>    pal: first step is to try list all various efforts in this area
>>    ... not sure what to write about webvtt since not very
>>    familiar, so would like to ask others to fill it in
>>
>>    giuseppe: would be good to list all the info we have about
>>    ongoing work, as far as it is public
>>
>>    mike: will provide a pointer to a collection of SMPTE document
>>
>>    all: providing links on IRC of onoging efforts
>>
>>    mark: what about europe, other than the DTG effort?
>>
>>    giuseppe: yes, EBU, already listed on the wiki
>>
>>    mark: what about Asia?
>>
>>    yosuke: Japan is using a spec based on original SMPTE standards
>>    ... switching to new one is considered but a lot of effort is
>>    required
>>
>>    mark: ok this is Japan, what about other areas? Korea/China?
>>
>>    yosuke: I'll investigate and send out links
>>
>>    mark: are there other TTML/SMPTE based profiles?
>>    ... (or extensions?)
>>
>>    pal: I think netflix use some profile of ttml, not sure if is
>>    public
>>
>>
>>    bob: I think there is an effort for a TTML 2.0 spec, anybody
>>    know more?
>>
>>    mark/giuseppe: no
>>
>>    glen: there is no 2.0, but a 1.1 work
>>    ... and also an errata being worked on
>>
>>    bob: is it done in the TT WG?
>>
>>    glenn: yes
>>
>>    pal: ok, let's move on to the next agenda item, people can keep
>>    adding link to the wiki if they have more
>>
>>    pal: next item is discuss use cases
>>
>>    pal: one use case is to rendering tt in UA
>>    ... Ultraviolet have decided to use a subset of smpte-tt
>>
>> <pal>[25]http://www.w3.org/**2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_**Use_Cases<http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Use_Cases>
>>
>>    pal: maybe not exactly a subset but anyway based on that
>>    ... there is a link in the wiki
>>    ... since ultraviolet has a larg number of members and a large
>>    catalog
>>    ... I would expect large support for this format
>>
>>    giuseppe: is important to distinguish between the browser and
>>    the player on the TV, they are usually not from the same
>>    manufacturer
>>
>>    glenn: this cause problems when trying to use new HTML5 API for
>>    multitrack
>>    ... what do people think about TTML support in browsers?
>>    ... I think only IE supports it
>>
>>    glenn: I made a proposal to webkit to add TTML support
>>    ... some negative reponses
>>    ... I would like to ask people to also comment on that bug
>>
>>    glenn: another useful task would would be to try to map the
>>    html5 interfaces also for TTML or other formats
>>
>>    mark: isn't this part of the TT WG charter? Isn't a deliverable
>>    of that group?
>>
>>    glenn: yes but maybe this TF could provide some input
>>
>>    pal: contributing to webkit is probably out of scope for this
>>    group, but providing a mapping could be in scope
>>
>>    mark: the most useful mapping would be the smpte-tt one since
>>    it is in the regulation
>>
>>    giuseppe: is it useful to ask other groups planning to use
>>    HTMl5 how they plan to solve this issue?
>>
>>    mark: we want to reach all devices, but we are facing issues
>>    due to this fragmentation
>>    ... all content companies in us are using smpte-tt, but there
>>    are devices only supporting webvtt
>>    ... so we have to do translation
>>    ... we would like to see the 2 groups to work togheter to make
>>    the spec closer
>>    ... anyway we shoudl focus on the requirements first, later we
>>    could investigate the technical solutions
>>
>>    glenn: I'm not sure that supporting multiple formats is costly,
>>    devices support multiple different formats for other features
>>
>>    giuseppe: what are the objections from the webkit community?
>>
>>    glenn: from my understanding is just about avoid multiple
>>    formats
>>    ... there is also a comment that would be difficult to
>>    implement
>>    ... probably comment based due to the lack of open
>>    implementations
>>
>>    pal: mark/glenn can you start writing down something about the
>>    current issues, for the group to review?
>>
>>    glenn: yes
>>
>>    mark: yes
>>
>>
>> List of standards or other info mentioned during the call
>>
>> <Mark_Vic_> WebVTT "Living Standard:
>> [11]http://dev.w3.org/html5/**webvtt/ <http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/>
>>
>> <Mark_Vic_> Web Media Text Tracks Community Group (Working on WebVTT):
>> [12]http://www.w3.org/**community/texttracks/<http://www.w3.org/community/texttracks/>
>>
>> <pal> [10]http://dev.w3.org/html5/**webvtt/<http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/>
>>
>> <yosuke> FYI: ISDB-Tmm (mobile DTV service) has adopted TTML. NTT-Docomo
>> and some CE manufactures has already released smart phones with TTML
>> enabled HTML5 browsers.
>> [28]http://en.wikipedia.org/**wiki/ISDB#ISDB-Tmm<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISDB#ISDB-Tmm>
>>
>> <Mark_Vic_> WebVTT in WebM:
>> [13]http://wiki.webmproject.**org/webm-metadata/temporal-**
>> metadata/webvtt-in-webm<http://wiki.webmproject.org/webm-metadata/temporal-metadata/webvtt-in-webm>
>>
>> <Mark_Vic_> WebVTT in Apple’s HTTP Live Streaming:
>> [14]http://tools.ietf.org/**html/draft-pantos-http-live-**streaming-09<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pantos-http-live-streaming-09>
>>
>> <glenn> [27]https://bugs.webkit.org/**show_bug.cgi?id=110479<https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=110479>
>>
>> <mike> SMPTE 2052-x series for SMPTE-TT,
>> [22]http://standards.smpte.**org/search?fulltext=2052&**
>> smptes-status=in-force&submit=**yes&content-group=smptes&x=0&**y=0<http://standards.smpte.org/search?fulltext=2052&smptes-status=in-force&submit=yes&content-group=smptes&x=0&y=0>
>>
>> <mike> CEA Technical Report (TR-3) Closed Captioning in IP-delivered
>> Video Programming,
>> [18]http://www.ce.org/**Standards/Standard-Listings/**
>> R4-3-Television-Data-Systems-**Subcommittee/CEA-TR-3.aspx<http://www.ce.org/Standards/Standard-Listings/R4-3-Television-Data-Systems-Subcommittee/CEA-TR-3.aspx>
>>
>> <glenn> [19]http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/**NOTE-ttml10-sdp-us-20130205/<http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-ttml10-sdp-us-20130205/>
>>
>> <mike> BBC YouView profile of TTML,
>> [26]https://industry.youview.**com/resources/YouView_Core_**
>> Technical_Specification_1.0.**pdf#page=118<https://industry.youview.com/resources/YouView_Core_Technical_Specification_1.0.pdf#page=118>
>>
>> <Mark_Vic_> Conversion of 608/708 captions to WebVTT:
>> [15]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/**text-tracks/raw-file/**
>> 669f6b95a488/608toVTT/**608toVTT.html<https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/text-tracks/raw-file/669f6b95a488/608toVTT/608toVTT.html>
>>
>>
>> <BobLund> 608 mapping to webvtt
>> [16]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/**text-tracks/raw-file/**
>> 669f6b95a488/608toVTT/**608toVTT.html<https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/text-tracks/raw-file/669f6b95a488/608toVTT/608toVTT.html>
>>
>> <pal>[21]https://industry.**youview.com/resources/YouView_**
>> Core_Technical_Specification_**1.0.pdf#page=118<https://industry.youview.com/resources/YouView_Core_Technical_Specification_1.0.pdf#page=118>
>>
>> <sheau> Found this link on ARIB, but it's in Japanese
>> [23]http://www.arib.or.jp/**english/html/overview/doc/2-**STD-B36v2_3.pdf<http://www.arib.or.jp/english/html/overview/doc/2-STD-B36v2_3.pdf>
>>
>> <yosuke> That's right, Sheau. Arib has English version of B-37 but not
>> for B-36.
>>
>> <yosuke> Here is a part of the spec of CC for Japanese DTV:
>> [20]http://www.arib.or.jp/**english/html/overview/doc/6-**
>> STD-B37v2_4-E1.pdf<http://www.arib.or.jp/english/html/overview/doc/6-STD-B37v2_4-E1.pdf>
>>
>> <mike> DECE/UV profile of TTML:
>> [17]http://www.uvvu.com/docs/**public/20121102_1.0.5_Tech_**
>> Spec_Package-Public.zip<http://www.uvvu.com/docs/public/20121102_1.0.5_Tech_Spec_Package-Public.zip>
>>
>> --
>> Giuseppe Pascale
>> Product Manager TV & Connected Devices
>> Opera Software
>>
>>
>

Received on Monday, 8 April 2013 05:48:51 UTC