- From: Ali C. Begen (abegen) <abegen@cisco.com>
- Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:22:32 -0700
- To: "Gerard Fernando" <gerardmxf@yahoo.co.uk>, <juhani.huttunen@nokia.com>, <watsonm@netflix.com>, <rob.glidden@sbcglobal.net>
- Cc: <hj08.lee@lge.com>, <public-web-and-tv@w3.org>
> -----Original Message----- > From: Gerard Fernando [mailto:gerardmxf@yahoo.co.uk] > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 1:01 PM > To: Ali C. Begen (abegen); juhani.huttunen@nokia.com; watsonm@netflix.com; rob.glidden@sbcglobal.net > Cc: hj08.lee@lge.com; public-web-and-tv@w3.org > Subject: Re: [W3C Web and TV IG] Adaptive streaming MPEG DASH liaison > > I totally disagree. No point wasting time asking a "non-pushy" question as MPEG is likely to send back a useless answer. > Better to ask a blunt question as then you are likely to get a straightforward/clear answer. > > Could it be that some folks are worried by the likely answer from MPEG - which is that DASH (in it's current state with > normative references to other standards) can't be made RF that easily. On the contrary I am hopeful that stakeholders will come forward and say they will offer their IPRs in RF basis. -acbegen > Gerard > > ________________________________ > > From: Ali C. Begen (abegen) <abegen@cisco.com> > To: juhani.huttunen@nokia.com; watsonm@netflix.com; rob.glidden@sbcglobal.net > Cc: hj08.lee@lge.com; public-web-and-tv@w3.org > Sent: Fri, 18 March, 2011 8:15:00 > Subject: RE: [W3C Web and TV IG] Adaptive streaming MPEG DASH liaison > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: public-web-and-tv-request@w3.org [mailto:public-web-and-tv-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of > > juhani.huttunen@nokia.com > > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 8:45 AM > > To: watsonm@netflix.com; rob.glidden@sbcglobal.net > > Cc: hj08.lee@lge.com; public-web-and-tv@w3.org > > Subject: RE: [W3C Web and TV IG] Adaptive streaming MPEG DASH liaison > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > I am supporting Mark’s proposal (attached). That is right to the point of the Royalty Free question and still avoids to be > > unnecessarily pushy towards MPEG. > > +1. Being pushy will not get us anything useful in the desired time frame. > > -acbegen > > > The letter sent to 3GPP by Web and TV Interest Group chairs is not the best reference to copy as such here because that > > letter was created without consulting and was not reviewed by the Web and TV Interest Group members before sending to > > 3GPP. > > > > > > > > I believe that the more open-minded question in the liaison letter concerning MPEG DASH licensing will lead to the best > > response without excluding any options. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Juhani > > > > **************************************** > > > > Juhani Huttunen > > > > Senior Solutions Manager > > > > Compatibility and Industry Collaboration, NOKIA > > > > Address: Keilalahdentie 2-4, 02150 Espoo, FINLAND > > > > Mobile: +358 40 581 1138 > > > > e-mail: juhani.huttunen@nokia.com > > > > **************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > From: public-web-and-tv-request@w3.org [mailto:public-web-and-tv-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of ext Mark Watson > > Sent: 18 March, 2011 07:19 > > To: Rob Glidden > > Cc: ???; public-web-and-tv@w3.org > > Subject: Re: [W3C Web and TV IG] Adaptive streaming MPEG DASH liaison > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On Mar 17, 2011, at 8:46 PM, "Rob Glidden" <rob.glidden@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > > Mark: > > > > If the whole standard is RF, RF profile work won't delay anything. > > > > > > > > It's not an a priori property of the specification. What we do, the options we leave open, discourage or encourage, can > affect > > the outcome. > > > > > > > > I believe that there are companies that may well be able to commit to terms compatible with the W3C policy. But if we > kick > > off a formal 'RF profile' process now it kicks the question way down the road and there will be no early clarity on this > issue. > > > > > > > > I'm not saying that early clarity is certain, but I feel now is exactly the wrong time to give, up as you propose. > > > > > > > > > > > > If RF profile work is delayed, then assertions (3rd party or other) can await opportune moment > > > > > > > > Quite the reverse. A formal RF process removes any sense of urgency regarding clarification of terms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Such happens. There's never a quick fix for RF, just due diligence on multiple fronts. > > > > Original response succinctly conveys W3C's royalty-free policy, which shouldn't budge. > > > > > > > > The best way to convey the W3C policy is to link to it, perhaps with a quote. I think paraphrase/characterization is > absolutely > > the wrong way to convey these things. > > > > > > > > ...Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob > > > > On 3/17/2011 3:49 PM, Mark Watson wrote: > > > > Rob, > > > > > > > > I don't understand what you mean by "And the response doesn't put W3C validating the well-known blocking/quick-fix/FUD > > tactic of delaying RF profiles until it is too late.". > > > > > > > > It seems that by jumping immediately into a process for definition in MPEG of an RF profile we completely set ourselves up > > for delay. Not that I think anyone will be interested in making that process deliberately longer than necessary, but because > by > > its nature it won't be fast. It's by no means certain that anyone has essential IPR or that if they do they will expect royalties > > for it. > > > > > > > > My proposal was shorter than the original & I think pretty simple and clear. It is more open than your proposal in terms of > > the options going forward but does not exclude the option you suggest. > > > > > > > > ...Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 17, 2011, at 3:14 PM, Rob Glidden wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple, helpful and appropriate W3C response to the MPEG request to consider DASH profiles: > > > > "We would like to draw your attention particularly to DASH’s profiles defined in DIS and would welcome W3C to provide its > > needs and suggestions to improve them to better fit W3C’s needs." > > > > Is the same that was sent to 3GPP: > > > > "We would very much appreciate if you could inform us of the current status of the specification of DASH and the possibility > > to work together on a royalty free profile of the specification for potential integration of DASH as adaptive streaming > > mechanism for audio and video in HTML. " > > > > An RF profile might not have to fully unring the already-wrung RAND bell. And the response doesn't put W3C validating the > > well-known blocking/quick-fix/FUD tactic of delaying RF profiles until it is too late. > > > > The original 3GPP text is fine, a short liaison response is not a good venue for more complexity right now. > > > > Rob > > > > > > On 3/17/2011 7:57 AM, Mark Watson wrote: > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > At the workshop I suggested that we should not immediately go down the road of requesting a "RF profile". That view > > seemed to have general support. > > > > > > > > Requesting an "RF profile" implies starting a new process in MPEG which could not be complete for some time. It > > immediately excludes the possibility that the specification could be used by W3C as is. > > > > > > > > What I proposed in my text is significantly different from asking MPEG simply to follow their existing process. I suggested > to > > "request MPEG member companies to make clear whether and under what terms the specification would be suitable for > > adoption by W3C, given the above policy." > > > > > > > > i.e. to explicitly ask them to look at the W3C policy and state whether the terms they offer could be compatible with that. It > is > > possible that companies are able to offer terms which allow the goals of that policy to be met but which are different from > > ticking the "Option 1" box. We should at least allow that possibility to be explored, before jumping to a formal RF process in > > MPEG. > > > > > > > > ...Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 16, 2011, at 11:46 AM, Rob Glidden wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the previous version of paragraph 3, which asks specifically about working on a royalty-free profile, is more on point. > > > > MPEG members are already under obligations to disclose patents and state whether they will license as RAND or RF. The > > latest publicly posted call for patents including DASH was dated October, 2010 (N11610) and is at "Standards under > > development for which a call for patent statements is issued <http://mpeg.chiariglione.org/hot_news.htm> ". W3C just > > asking MPEG to do what it has already done and will do again anyway and request its members to do what they are already > > obligated to do may be motivational to someone but is a do-loop. > > > > As an exemplar, the MPEG ad hoc group on Type-1 coding has a publicly announced mandate (N11842) of refining Type-1 > > (i.e. royalty free) Requirements and a publicly announced meeting > > <http://mpeg.chiariglione.org/meetings/daegu11/daegu_ahg.htm> prior to the next MPEG meeting. > > > > Rob > > > > On 3/16/2011 8:33 AM, Mark Watson wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > Attached (doc & pdf) are some proposed changes, along the lines of my previous comments on the 3GPP letter. Note that > the > > "and has the goal..." text that I added regarding the Patent Policy is taken from the Patent Policy itself: I think it is always > best > > with legal aspects like this just to quote, rather than paraphrase or characterize: the legal text is usually worded the way it > is > > for good reasons. > > > > I didn't fully understand the fourth paragraph, or why it would be of interest to MPEG, so I suggest to delete it. But since I > > didn't fully understand it I may have missed the intent. > > > > ...Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 2011, at 6:56 PM, ì´í˜„재 wrote: > > > > > > > Dear IG members, > > > > > > As we shared our common interest of single solution necessity of adaptive streaming on the browser last Berlin. We > > sent liaison letter to 3GPP right after Berlin. We will send same context to MPEG DASH scheduled to next week. > > > I drafted from 3GPP letter and added reply to MPEG DASH intention. The tone/content of letter is intentionally > > adjusted mild for initiating discussion and get initial feedback. > > > > > > The recipient of this letter will be MPEG convener Leonardo because liaison letter is sent from him. CCed to Iraj > > DASH chair. > > > The sender of this letter will be W3C Web and TV IG chairs on behave of W3C Web and TV IG members. Even > > though the recipient of the letter was W3C. > > > > > > Please feel free to comment on the draft by this weekend. Sorry for the hurried update. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > HJ > > > --------------- > > > Dear Mr. Convener and DASH experts, > > > > > > The W3C has recently launched a Web and TV Interest Group, set to identify requirements and potential solutions to > > ensure that the Web will function well with TV. > > > > > > During the second W3C Web and TV workshop, held in Berlin on 8-9 February 2011, it came to our attention that > > many participants of the workshop are interested in getting single solution of adaptive streaming on the browser. One of > the > > potential possibilities is DASH. As a result, Web and TV Interest Group(IG) co-chairs would like to convey this interest from > > workshop participants and IG members to MPEG DASH experts, and to inquire about the licensing status of DASH. W3C has > a > > strict royalty-free patent policy on the technologies that get adopted as core Web technologies. > > > > > > We would very much appreciate if you could inform us of the current status of the specification of DASH and the > > possibility to work together on a royalty free profile of the specification for potential integration of DASH as adaptive > > streaming mechanism for audio and video in HTML. > > > > > > As we see MPEG DASH is general enabler architectural framework for a starting point. Adaptive streaming for Web > > and TV specific discussion (for example, profiling from DASH, when DASH is chosen as baseline) would better be placed in > the > > special working group from Web and TV activity. > > > > > > MPEG DASH experts willing to discuss the topic with participants of the Web and TV Interest Group may use the > > public public-web-and-tv@w3.org mailing-list, whose archives are publicly available at: > > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/ > > > > > > Companies and individuals willing to know more about W3C and W3C process may get in touch with Francois > > Daoust < <mailto:fd@w3.org> fd@w3.org> and Kazuyuki Ashimura < <mailto:kaz@w3.org> kaz@w3.org>, W3C staff > contacts > > for the Web and TV Interest Group. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Yosuke, Giuseppe, Mashahito, HJ (chairs of W3C Web and TV IG) > > > On behalf of the W3C Web and TV IG members. > > > > > > --------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Received on Friday, 18 March 2011 17:23:33 UTC